I just noticed a crack in both the upper and lower fireback in the VC Defiant I have. The crack is not as visible when the stove is cooler, but it may be getting worse with use. Right now it is about 2 inches long, and maybe 1/16 wide at the edge of the fireback. What would be the effect/risk of this situation? And, how difficult is replacement?
Cracked fireback in Defiant stove
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The thing that will become a problem eventually is the damper. Because it sit s on top of the fireback, I sort of gets "pinched" once the fireback gets warped and cracked enough. You may find the damper becomes hard to close when it's hot, or it DOES close but pops open as it heats up further, OR just gets stuck in the closwd pos. untiil she cools. Fire backs can be pretty ugly and still do their job, but lookinto having it repaired when it's convenient. D I's are all different inside, so it may be easy or not so easy to fix, but if ya find the right "stoveman", anything is possible. Happy Heating
Brian VT
Minister of Fire
I replaced the upper fireback in my Resolute and it was pretty cheap to buy ($40, I think, without the damper) and pretty easy to replace.
Replacing a fireback on a defiant isnt cheap. Most dealers can get the parts and the instructions are available from VC. Unfortunately, it requires complete disassembly of the stove. The last time I did it was around 8 hours from start to finish. The biggest hassle is cleaning the old parts and getting the old mortar out of the joints. I use a 4" angle grinder and a wire cup brush for most of the cleaning. You may want to pick up some spare tie rods. Generally if the firback is cracked, the secondary air system is probably failed or neear failure.
Of course when you are done, you basically have a new stove and will work like new. Usually a cracked fireback is related to ash build up behind the fireback as most folks dont realize that they need to clean back there and its a PITA to get there.
Of course when you are done, you basically have a new stove and will work like new. Usually a cracked fireback is related to ash build up behind the fireback as most folks dont realize that they need to clean back there and its a PITA to get there.
Nothing is cheap to replace, it's true. Still, to end up with a Def. that runs like new again is LOTS less than a new anything. Some Def. I's you can replace firebacks without a teardown, some not so. The kit including pretty much all the stuff ya' need is like $250.00, then either do it or have it done. Could be not so bad maybe, eh?
Cracks like these are often - but not always - a result of fine ash building up behind the fireback. This causes the fireback to heat up because air can no longer circulate behind it. These are, however, large castings subject to a lot of expansion and contraction so they can develop cracks even with no ash build up.
For the remainder of the winter you can drill small holes at the ends of each crack. These should alleviate stress and prevent the cracks from growing any larger. You can use stove cement to seal the cracks, but it will probably not last very long.
The only real cure is rebuilding as other posters have noted. $250 for a rebuild kit seems way low to me. It's also a pretty difficult and messy job. If a nearby dealer can rebuild or can recommend someone, I think I'd choose that over a DIY project unless you have the tools and skills.
For the remainder of the winter you can drill small holes at the ends of each crack. These should alleviate stress and prevent the cracks from growing any larger. You can use stove cement to seal the cracks, but it will probably not last very long.
The only real cure is rebuilding as other posters have noted. $250 for a rebuild kit seems way low to me. It's also a pretty difficult and messy job. If a nearby dealer can rebuild or can recommend someone, I think I'd choose that over a DIY project unless you have the tools and skills.
V.c. ppart number 5832 the Defiant IAI fireback kit retails here for $249.00 . Also not all Defiants need a total rebuild to replace the internals, but don't worry, it'll be messy anyway. There are people who specialize in just this kind of thing that would be willing and able to help right here in the Northeast...
Thanks you all for the input. My research shows that the 2 piece firebacks don't require full disassembly. I would certainly do the rebuild myself. Any reccomendations on a source that would sell VC parts at a discount?? When I put the stove back into service, I cleaned out the unit very well with a vaccuum and a bruah. I did not, however, attempt to get behind the fireback. It looks like the top of the stove would remove with the 4 cap nuts showing on the top?? This would make an easy access for cleaning behind that fireback. One other thing mentioned above was the air flow being blocked from ash. In particular was the mention of the small inlet being for the secondary burn air flow. Is there a separation of the main air inlet vs. the small inlet? They look like they feed the same overall duct.
Fsappo
Minister of Fire
If its a single pce fireback, it requires a full rebuild. If not, it still may. If you own a grinder and some basic tools, its a full day job of swearin and gettin dirty. I've done dozens of defiant rebuilds and it was always worth it to the customer. They ended up with a brand new stove basically. If you can follow directions and you use the folks here for guidance along the way, it should be doable by a homeowner.
Whoa, dude, DON'T POP THE TOP To get in behind the fire back, just snake a shop vac hose down through the flue outlet and do your best. Also try going upand around through the rectangular opening below the baffle. That'll do on an annual basis to keep the dust down. Look for a plate sitting below the damper lying horizontally (in the same plane as the closed damper) which theoretically can be removed to facillitate cleaning. Hard to get to, some older ones ARE stuck, sometimes they have fallen into the 2ndary burn chamber anyway, but there ya go. And by the way, a Defiant IA has a 2 pc. back that is NOT removable w/o teardown. A IAI however, can indeed be removed.
To get in behind the fire back, just snake a shop vac hose down through the flue outlet and do your best. Also try going upand around through the rectangular opening below the baffle. That'll do on an annual basis to keep the dust down. Look for a plate sitting below the damper lying horizontally (in the same plane as the closed damper) which theoretically can be removed to facillitate cleaning. Hard to get to, some older ones ARE stuck, sometimes they have fallen into the 2ndary burn chamber anyway, but there ya go. And by the way, a Defiant IA has a 2 pc. back that is NOT removable w/o teardown. A IAI however, can indeed be removed.I'm not sure which model Defiant you have, but I've never heard of one that did not require disassembly to replace the fireback whether one or two pieced. Franks obviously has a huge amount of experience, so if he says it's possible to do the replacement without a full rebuild, it can be done.
You don't have to do any disassembly to clean behind the fireback. With the stove pipe off and the damper open, you can remove the cast plate the damper rests on when closed to gain access to the area behind the fireback. You can also vacuum out this area with a smaller diameter hose attached to the vac without removing the plate. I always found this easier than wrestling the plate in and out.
You don't have to do any disassembly to clean behind the fireback. With the stove pipe off and the damper open, you can remove the cast plate the damper rests on when closed to gain access to the area behind the fireback. You can also vacuum out this area with a smaller diameter hose attached to the vac without removing the plate. I always found this easier than wrestling the plate in and out.
It may be possible to replace the upper fireback on some newer Defiant models but I would expect it would be darn difficult to get to the area where the secondary air supply tube is formed clean enough to get it to seal again. This tube runs from the left side of the stove near the air intake to the left side of the stove in the the secondary burn chamber. This tube is formed by laying down refractory cement on and upper and lower cast iron ribs on the fire back and the back of the stove. The top of the channel is then covered with wire screen and parged in with refractory cement. Its not particulary difficult once you are staring at two clean castings but would be a bear without getting everything back to cast iron. If the tube isnt sealed from the fireback, the secondary combustion just wont work right.
In general if you are going to buy the parts, go for the tear down. Its not hard just dirty and is best done outside on a warm day with old clothes and a dust mask on. If you take a bit of extra time with a wire brush you can repaint the exterior panels and end up with what looks and performs like a new stove
In general if you are going to buy the parts, go for the tear down. Its not hard just dirty and is best done outside on a warm day with old clothes and a dust mask on. If you take a bit of extra time with a wire brush you can repaint the exterior panels and end up with what looks and performs like a new stove
mywaynow: I'm not sure what the situation is for your particular stove, but there was a reason why VC always sold rebuild kits for the Defiants. In disassembling the stove, certain parts were sure to break or need to be broken - the four threaded rods which hold everything together, for example. The kits included everything you were likely to need to take the stove apart and reassemble it - fireback(s), mesh for the area that forms the channel behind the fireback, cement, side loading door, threaded rods, and more that I've forgotten. It may now be possible to buy just the two fireback castings, but it's very likely you'll need more than just them to do the job. Franks can certainly tell you more than I can, but don't assume the two fireback pieces are all you're going to need.
The kit #5825 includes upper and lower fireback, tierods, hardware, screen, cement and instructions. It seems to omit the baffle, as opposed to the other kits. Is it possible that the baffle must have been changed when converting 1 piece units to 2 piece?
Mywaynow, the part you need is in fact 5832, the defiant IAI fireback kit. Included in this is a5825 and 5830, box 2 and box 3 respectfully. What happened to box 1/ Well in the real old days, back when we had a normal climate, many Defiants still had 1 pc. firebacks and so required replacement of the left end and door as well. As these old guys have mostly been converted and few 1 pc. firebacks now remain, they've eliminated "box 1" from the kit. Retial value about $250.00 and yes, it includes upper and lower baffle, all the stuff you mentioned, AND a new 2ndary air tube, which you'll need . Sound like fun? In atwisted way it really is. Happy Heating!
!
summit
Minister of Fire
Since this is an old defiant (no glass, side loader) I'd get the kit and replace the part. I think, if you have a single piece fireback currently, then you must get a 2 part job and convert the side load opening as well. The 1 part firebacks can be hard to find. All in all, however, it aint too bad a job doing an original defiant. There looks like alot of cast there (and there is),but its all in big and solid parts... none of the little bits and peices like the catalytic top load versions. You'll want a ratchet strap to wrap around it while you are re- assembling. It helps keep it all together untill you get the top on. also allows you to open and close it all a bit while the cement is wet to wiggle the parts in when you are reassembling. They used to have a template to make a 2x6 with notches at different spots incuded in the kit. The board with the precut notches coud be flipped to hold side to side, front to back, notch for the upper damper, etc. this rotating brace was used in a certain sequence when putting it all back together.
Well, today I broke the stovepipe down to clean it. While that was going on, I decided to try and clean the rear section of the stove. As someone mentioned, there was a build up of fine ash behind the fireback. Likely the cause of the crack. What I didn't find though, was a screen. Based on the list of parts in the rebuild kit, i expected to see that part, but it was not there. Unless it is hidden somehow? I also regasketed the doors/griddle. I saw a date on the door of 1979, in case that defines the model.
I must comment on the gasket kit. It is a Rutland kit, and made for a couple of VC model stoves. Having never done this before, I did read the instructions before beginning. The statement in the instructions that had me talking to myself was in reference to the adhesive and read something like "use the appropriate amount of adhesive for the job". To steal a phrase from my kids current favorite movie, "you've got to be pulling on my leg!" The appropriate amount???? What the h3ll does that mean? That set of directions was most likely written by an overscholared moron. Just had to vent that one out.
I must comment on the gasket kit. It is a Rutland kit, and made for a couple of VC model stoves. Having never done this before, I did read the instructions before beginning. The statement in the instructions that had me talking to myself was in reference to the adhesive and read something like "use the appropriate amount of adhesive for the job". To steal a phrase from my kids current favorite movie, "you've got to be pulling on my leg!" The appropriate amount???? What the h3ll does that mean? That set of directions was most likely written by an overscholared moron. Just had to vent that one out.
The mesh screen and stove cement channel behind the fireback often did not last very long. When it failed, it dropped down to the bottom where it was often vacuumed up when this area of the stove was cleaned. This may be why you do not see any trace of it.
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