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  1. jatoxico

    jatoxico Minister of Fire

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    Long Island NY
    From where I'm standing I think you are misinterpreting the concerns begreen is bringing up. Points are being brought up that may or may not have been addressed in your install that can all add up to the original problem you described or worse if there is truly dangerous situation. The only way to determine if it's a safe situation is to go through it step by step.

    So, not saying you did but some people do some crazy stuff.

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  2. fossil

    fossil Accidental Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
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    Bend, OR
    Right. We all also know what a Motor Home is (see post #17 above). Hence the confusion. OK, then, it's a Mobile Home. Installing any solid fuel-burning appliance in a mobile home requires compliance with some requirements not applicable to fixed structures (fastened to floor, Outside Air Kit...). Where you live might make a difference...so far as I know, you haven't told us that tidbit of info. In any case, your current installation falls short in a number of ways. If you want to have an installation that's in compliance with all the manufacturer's requirements and the local building/safety codes, then you're gonna have to lose the attitude that if you figure it's good enough, then it's good enough. The requirements were not just arbitrarily invented to irritate you...rather an attempt to help keep you and your loved ones alive. Rick
  3. steve reynolds

    steve reynolds New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    not misinterpiting anything as of yet... i am asking for input on this... i have posted everything i have done and am asking for insults or what ever... i know i have taken a few shortcuts.. to the more minor steps and that is where i am asking for info.. gawd knows i know i could use a ceiling support and the outside air kit, but under my circumstances is the outside air kit really needed? please i am asking for the constructive critisism to make it better and hopefully a way to do it.. but please be objective, there are a few things i done that you and i know are questionable like the outside air kit and the ground? of course we know it has to be bolted down if itr is moved comon.. that is a given. and for sure the pipes have to be in place if its moved.. we all know that. but since i have the stainless double wall down in my kitchen there is actually no need for the thimble that takes it through the ceiling and since i have a attic insulation guard in place as a secondary to a cclearance.. and an extra inch of clearance around the stainless double wall on the ceiling what makes it subjectable? no i didnt follow the manufacturers steps but in fact i went a step further by installing a attic insulation guard shoiuld in fact make it more safe!

    after readfing post on the outside air kit, it is only for oxygen to the living quarter in the home and nothing else! it actually has nothing to do with the safety of the stove then i would think it was ok wouldnt you? as far as the ceiling support yes i agree it would be a good idea but i have to do soem research on how to get one installed with the situation i have.. i am sure there bis a way to get some kind of support up there and i will figiure it out..

    please let me know what i can do to work with this.. i am open to all suggestions
    steve
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  4. jatoxico

    jatoxico Minister of Fire

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    Long Island NY
    Sheesh nobodies a mind reader here. "We all know this mobile home isn't going anywhere". How do we all know that? Any way sounds like you have a way over sized stove for the application. Keep the pipe clean and be safe.
  5. steve reynolds

    steve reynolds New Member

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    Oct 27, 2012
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    so yes ,,, a few have gave there opinion on that including me... my question is.. how often should i have to do this under these circumstances... once a month twice a month? or maybe every other month?
  6. jatoxico

    jatoxico Minister of Fire

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    Long Island NY
    I guess only you can say. If your wood quality isn't the best (my wasn't right off) and you are running cool, could be pretty often. Once a month is not out of the question in a more standard install, I'd check it every 2 weeks at least at first. One thing I know, I would not want to have a chimney fire in your situation.

    If you can inspect yourself or better yet do your own sweep do it. I have not swept my myself but it's 30' to the ground. I found this though after putting a cord of less than perfect but not horrible BL through my setup.

    Attached Files:

  7. jeff_t

    jeff_t Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    SE MI
    Out of curiosity, how did you go thru the roof?
  8. corey21

    corey21 Minister of Fire

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    2,215
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    Soutwest VA
    I am also wondering about that. Pics of the pipe were it goes out would help us.
  9. leoibb

    leoibb Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Messages:
    84
    Loc:
    uk
    is it possible for you to maybe make the firebox smaller and burn hot in it so to avoid the creosote buildup? just a thought
  10. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    3,795
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    The install is not up to code and your insurance company will likely void your policy if there is ever a fire. You have to realize you're on a site where people are fanatical about burning wood and helping people install stoves properly/safely. The outside air kit and bolt down kit are not "optional" in a mobile home install they're required if you feel you need them or not. The complete install is a mess I'm curious how it ever passed inspection.

    Fossil and BeGreen are two of our most helpful/knowledgeable members regarding stove installs. They are full of helpful information so I'd suggest paying attention to them. When I started here I didn't always like what I read but everyone was just trying to keep me and my family safe.
  11. Bub381

    Bub381 Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    Mid-coast Maine
    When i started on this site i gave Begreen a hard time as i thought he was playing games with me.Well i was wrong and he has helped me tremendously since.You will find nothing but honest answers here and if someone gave you the wrong answer purposely they wouldn't have a friend on here nor would they get any help when they posted.Your best answer is to have a fire marshal come and inspect your set up and tell you what is wrong because if you don't and you burn your house flat you wont be covered.Also as sick as it sounds i wouldn't want to lug my family out of it if it did burn.This is just good honest advice,no one here has to give, they just offer it when asked.Get that thing inspected.End of story.I wish ya the best and remember a shortcut will save ya time and money but it wont buy ya life back.
  12. steve reynolds

    steve reynolds New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    ok not mentioning the things that need done ie: ceiling support, bolted to floor, outside air kit, and ground wire. i think i have found why it was getting so much creosote so quick, by the way i did remove pipes and did have a bit of creosote built up. cleaned it real good and bought a magnetic stove pipe thermometer and have taken some notes.. here is what i found. i think my catalyst is not working correctly so i made some adjustments on my flu and thermostat setting. the settings i was using before my fire would actually go down to nothing and coals would stop glowing and come back on about a half hour later and repeat this over and over.. and stove pipe (single wall) would drop to 190-200 then back up to 275 or so while it was burning.. now i think i have a sweet spot.. i have the flu on stove opened about a 1/4 to 1/3 way open and thermostat set to where i have a constant slow burn with red coals and a constant stove pipe temp of 300-310 ...

    do you think the cool pipe temps would have caused the creosote build up so quick? and if so would this sweet spot i think i found make it a bit better as far as cresote building up so fast.. of course i am gonna check it again to make sure but just wanting your expertise advise..

    and yes i plan on taking care of this missed steps within the next couple weeks. i would hate my insurance to deny me if something bad happened. i hate to bolt this thing down and put a hole in floor for fresh air since i plan on moving this out every spring to the shed. but would rather be reimbursed if need be!
  13. steve reynolds

    steve reynolds New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    does anyone know where i can find a box like this but i would like it to have a twist lock for the double wall stainless going out and a twist lock for the black double wall stove pipe to connect to on the inside of house hopefully with a welded trim collar that i can actually screw directly into my ceiling and into roof rafters that are 16 on center so the box itself would need to be 141/2 inches the height dont matter as i assume i can cut this down to the height i need for my attic, seeing i only have a 15 inch attic space, thats another reason i need something i can screw in from inside of house into rafters instead of in attic area.

    you guys got me thinking and i can get this thing rite for ubder 200 bucks might as well get it done for peace of mind. but this box is going to be the hardest to find..
    thanks

    Attached Files:

  14. seaken

    seaken Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    580
    Loc:
    Shokan, NY
    So, let me get this straight. You come here as a new member asking why you have "creosote already" and use terms to describe your installation that are totally ambiguous and offer no pictures. Then you tell us you have this in a "motor home". And you get pissed off when someone tries to help?

    Sometimes I can't believe what I am reading. I was wondering if this was some kind of "bait" post to try to get the forum riled up.

    After the conversation developed it became clear that you have a mobile home and that you did a self install while ignoring the manufacturer's instructions, all on top of purchasing a stove that is too big for your space. And you are supporting it on snap pipe! If I were your wife I would insist you not burn this stove. If I were your neighbor (presumably in a mobile home park) I would be in fear for my life and pissed off that you would be so careless with other people's safety.

    Codes were written for people like you. Unfortunately, you believe the codes are worthless and unecessarily restrictive or too costly to implement. If I were an inspector you would be fined, or an insurance agent your policy would be dropped. If I am the judge after your mobile home park burns down I am finding you guilty of negligence. If someone dies you go to jail.

    You should be ashamed of yourself. If you are, there may be hope. You can get help here. But if you insist on being an ass then this could end up being just another tragic story. Your choice.
  15. steve reynolds

    steve reynolds New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
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    43
    ok cool you got to run your mouth... i am asking for help to get this box.. if you cant help then go away!. it was a simple question, i didnt ask for your opinion on anything else! seems you are the one wanting get things riled up? your at a good start.
  16. Lumber-Jack

    Lumber-Jack Minister of Fire

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    Dec 29, 2008
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    1,736
    Loc:
    Beautiful British Columbia
    OK guys, calm down.
    Steve the problem is your installation is not up to code, and you'll find the guys here are going to be less than willing to give you any advice on how to operate something that is not up to code. Even if the mobile home never moves, and you operate the stove with the windows wide open, and your ceiling transition has 10 times more clearance than what the code calls for, it is still not done the way it is required to meet code, and that's all that maters when it comes to insurance companies.
    Have you talked to your insurance company about having a wood burning appliance in your home? Usually they require these installations to be inspected when you install them, and if you install it without their knowledge they can legally nullify your policy, even if you are not actually operating the stove.
    I would look into that if I was you before you go much further.
  17. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Yep take a deep breath, steve all we can do is tell you how it needs to be done to meet code and be safe, nobody trying to bust your balls here, too many stories about fires due to poor installation. They have your best interests in mind.
  18. seaken

    seaken Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    580
    Loc:
    Shokan, NY
    Well, I CAN help but you'll have to lose the attitude first. This is a "topic" that you started about creosote. Your question about this "box" is somewhat off topic but most of us here can overlook that and maybe you'll get some help with that. My comments go directly to your lack of understanding about your installation and your arrogant and antagonistic posture. If you want help to figure out how to eliminate the creosote you're going to have to hold your tongue
    and just listen. You can't come to a forum like this and say "I need help but don't tell m what to do".

    To help others who may be following along:

    1. Stove is too big. Should consider replacement with a more suitable model.
    2. DO NOT SUPPORT A CHIMNEY ON CONNECTOR PIPE! ESPECIALLY "SNAP" PIPE.
    3. Chimney is not tall enough.15 feet from stove collar is recommended minimum.
    4. The fuel, chimney and user are all equally as important as the stove to achieve good results. A defect in any one part can lead to poor results.
    5. Codes are for your protection but common sense is more practical. If you do not know what you are doing you should not install a wood stove yourself. If you do install it yourself please follow the codes. If you have someone else do it make sure they follow the codes.
    6. Wood stoves are dangerous. Treat them with respect.
  19. steve reynolds

    steve reynolds New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    yes i have talked to insurance and they do not require a inspection or a professional install. but i still want it rite. i just happen to have a bit of extra money rite now and thats why i am asking about the ceiling box. i want to order it today. i also called blaze king about the outside air kit and it is something i am going to have to prefab and is going to be much cheaper than expected so i am doing that also.. and the ground and the bolt down is going to cost almost nothing so doing that as well. so the first step is to get the ceiling box support and hopefully i can find it with a welded flange so i can screw to ceiling rafter from living space instead of in attic, because i have no attic space to work in.. all the access i have is if i take down the paneling to access it. this is 8 inch flu by the way.
    so calm down guys i am doing the rite thing just need advise where to purchase this box at a decent price. again hoping to find it with a welded flange just to screw in to ceiling rafters. if cant find it i guess i will have to use some kind of bolts and nuts and go through the side of ceiling rafters into box.
    just relax :))

    also to the last post.. if i install this ceiling box it will give me an additional 3 ft of pipe because i will have to install a 3 ft section of black double wall stove pipe to get to ceiling box :)
  20. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Mine did not have a flange either, not sure if they make them that way, do you know the brand of class a pipe you have? Sounds like you are well on your way to make it right.
  21. steve reynolds

    steve reynolds New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    supervent 2100f ul-103 pipe...from menards..
  22. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Well I cant find any either, they all go between the studs with a trim piece, some one else might be able to tell you if any ones makes one with a mounting flange. I think its best to stay with the same brand (except for the stove pipe) all the way up.
  23. steve reynolds

    steve reynolds New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    its ok it is not going to be a huge deal to just pre drill holes through the side of the ceiling rafter into ceiling support box and use bolts and nuts since it is going to be 8 inch hole at least i can get hand in to tighten nut..will send pics to satisfy when done.. will also satisfy my conscious..
    not to stir the pot but just a fyi i still think the bolt down and ground wire is nutts!! but oh well its code..
  24. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Was that because you said motor home instead of mobile home?
  25. seaken

    seaken Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    580
    Loc:
    Shokan, NY
    Check the manual.All of my stoves models that support mobile home installations require the same manufacturer for the entire vent system, chimney and connector pipe. And the pipe manufacturers are listed in the manual and you have to choose from among them.

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