Do I have a defective stove?

[ratbeetle]

Hello all. I recently installed a Drolet Deco II. This is my third stove install, I'm far from an expert but I understand the process and I'm confident that my install is solid. Stove is installed in the living room of our 1600sf home. Stove room has vaulted ceilings, I have approximately 7' of double wall with a foot of 45 degree offset from the stove top to the ceiling penetration, then 11' of class A chimney. Only 3' of that is outside and I'm a little more than 2' above the roof ridge line.

The stove drafts extremely well when hot, so well in fact that I called Drolet the first week I burned with the stove because the primary air was whistling and flames where very strong and hot with primary closed down. I felt like I couldn't dial the air down enough and was worried about overfiring the stove. Drolet told me that there was no issue with the stove and I just needed a damper in the double wall because the draft was too strong.

My big issue though is on cold starts. This stove pukes smoke out of the bottom on cold starts through what appears to be the secondary air system no matter what I do. I've tried just about everything I can think of so far and I still get smoke out of the bottom of the stove on cold starts. I really don't think it's a draft issue because smoke is going up and around the baffle while still coming out the bottom. And some of the smoke coming out of the bottom is pulled right back into the firebox and up the chimney.

Just to confirm it's not the wood, the fire I started this morning consisted of 2x4 kindling pieces, kiln-dried hardwood floor cutoffs and two huge balls of newspaper on top to get that initial rush of heat up the chimney. Definitely not a wet wood problem and yet it still puked smoke out of the bottom. I'm not interested in a stove that requires me to air the house out every time I cold start it so my kid isn't breathing in smoke all day.

I've been burning wood for 15 years now and I've never had this problem. It seems like my firebox is not tight, is my stove defective? Thanks for the help.

 

[mellow]

Have you tried running a propane torch / heated blower up the cold chimney to just make sure draft is going? You could also take an incense stick and make sure the smoke from it is being sucked up the chimney and draft established.

 

[ratbeetle]

I have not and really hope I don't have to preheat the firebox any time I want to start the stove. In theory, this should be the best drafting system I've had to date. If my 90 degree through-wall with 15' of exterior pipe never did this on cold starts, I just can't understand why this one would.

And to have it come out of the secondary air system instead of the door seems odd to say the least.

Wouldn't the heat from the newspaper on top typically be enough to jumpstart the draft? That has been my experience in the past. I've certainly never had a backdraft come out of the air system in the stove itself. Anytime I've had a draft issue, the smoke would roll out of the top of the door first.

 

[ratbeetle]

Fire from this morning. This is 30 mins after primary air completely closed off with flames burning much stronger than I'm used to with air shut down. This is only 4 small oak splits, stove top temps ran up to 770 verfied with infrared thermometer. Almost afraid to load it up.

How can I have no draft and yet too much draft at the same time.

 

[begreen]

How can I have no draft and yet too much draft at the same time.

This can be a symptom of a tight house and/or of negative pressure in the room. The draft can start out weak until the flue is warmed up and then it becomes very strong. It's not untypical for a basement installation, but can also happen in some main floor installs. In this case I agree with Drolet's suggestion about adding a key damper to the stove pipe. Also, burn thicker (5-7") splits to slow down the fire.

One thing to try to improve starting is to open up a nearby window 1/2" and see if that helps. If so, the stove will benefit from an outside air kit (OAK).

 

[ABMax24]

My SBI stove does this when lighting too. Just close the door, or close it so it's not quite latched. With the door closed or mostly closed the stove pulls a vacuum in the secondary air system, ensuring air goes in the system instead of smoke coming out.

 

[ratbeetle]

This can be a symptom of a tight house and/or of negative pressure in the room. The draft can start out weak until the flue is warmed up and then it becomes very strong. It's not untypical for a basement installation, but can also happen in some main floor installs. In this case I agree with Drolet's suggestion about adding a key damper to the stove pipe. Also, burn thicker (5-7") splits to slow down the fire.

One thing to try to improve starting is to open up a nearby window 1/2" and see if that helps. If so, the stove will benefit from an outside air kit (OAK).

I plan to add a damper soon, just need to get around to picking it up. Since I have a telescoping piece of pipe, and have already drilled it for the current configuration, is there a concern with drilling more holes in it?

 

[ratbeetle]

My SBI stove does this when lighting too. Just close the door, or close it so it's not quite latched. With the door closed or mostly closed the stove pulls a vacuum in the secondary air system, ensuring air goes in the system instead of smoke coming out.

How long do you leave the door like this? I'm used to leaving the door farily open until the flames are well established. Is a couple minutes enough to initiate the pull from the secondaries?

 

[ABMax24]

How long do you leave the door like this? I'm used to leaving the door farily open until the flames are well established. Is a couple minutes enough to initiate the pull from the secondaries?

I generally close the door almost immediately upon lighting. Or just crack it if the fire doesn't want to go.

 

[ratbeetle]

I generally close the door almost immediately upon lighting. Or just crack it if the fire doesn't want to go.

Ok, I'll give it a shot on my next cold start. I've always kept the door open on starts to get the fire strong quickly. Maybe I don't have to do that. Thanks.

 

[ABMax24]

You can still get the same effect with it cracked, and still pull enough vacuum to keep smoke from leaking out the bottom

 

[ratbeetle]

Unfortunately, I have still had smoke with the door cracked.

 

[begreen]

Ok, I'll give it a shot on my next cold start. I've always kept the door open on starts to get the fire strong quickly. Maybe I don't have to do that. Thanks.

FWIW, I never leave the door open more than an inch or less on startup.

Unfortunately, I have still had smoke with the door cracked.

Did you try opening a nearby window a little before starting the fire?

 

[ratbeetle]

FWIW, I never leave the door open more than an inch or less on startup.


Did you try opening a nearby window a little before starting the fire?

I did but I don't really have anything very close. The closest is the front door and it's probably 10 feet away.

Maybe I'm keeping the stove door open too long.

 

[bigealta]

Try Top Down fire starts. And close the door after you light it. Heating the top will help speed draft and produce less smoke.

 

[Crab]

Another FWIW. I have a Jotul F45 so no stove comparison and I have never had smoke come out like you are having.
1. My start ups are all a Jotul type top down, similar to your stoves manual instructions for 2 Parallel log start up.
2. The door gets shut immediately after I light the paper, I never have to crack the door.. Your chimney length is similar to mine it should draft well.
Your manual does state that if you are starting with a top down fire , you should close the door immediately.
Do you use the top down method? I'm sold on it to get the secondary's firing quickly.

 

[ratbeetle]

I typically don't do top down fires, maybe I'll start. I'm starting to think I leave the door too open (4-6") for too long.

Thanks for the pointers all. I'll make some
adjustments on my next cold start and report back. I just feel better knowing it's likely an operator error with a new stove and not a problem with the stove itself.

 

[bigealta]

Set your fire up like this. But close the door right away. I left it open a little while just for the video.

 

[ratbeetle]

Tried things a bit different this morning. I let a small chunk of fire starter burn with the door closed while I made coffee. Then I came back, started the fire as normal and closed the door as soon as it was lit. The box filled with smoke for a minute or two, but nothing came out through the secondary system into the house.

So, operator error and maybe my smoke issue is fixed. Thanks for the tips!

 

[EbS-P]

Tried things a bit different this morning. I let a small chunk of fire starter burn with the door closed while I made coffee. Then I came back, started the fire as normal and closed the door as soon as it was lit. The box filled with smoke for a minute or two, but nothing came out through the secondary system into the house.

So, operator error and maybe my smoke issue is fixed. Thanks for the tips!

Top down more kindling than you think is appropriate. Light the fire starter and close the door. Set a timer for 10 minutes. And check every 10 minutes afterwards turning down sooner than you think you should. I can get stove top to 400 in 15-20 minutes in a cold start. Today on a hot reload. The air settings was back to 10% within 10 minutes of closing the door. I always put 3-4 small pieces of kindling on first. Then one on top on a reload to make sure the secondaries stay lit as I turn down the air. It’s just faster and cleaner.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

If I leave my door open at all on startup it slows my fire taking off. The only way I can see how this happens is it changes where the air is injected vs how much air is injected.

 

[joop]

fill up stove like you would normally,crumple up a page of newspaper stick it in between baffle and top of stove .light her up and swoosh chimney warm.start fire

 

[Rickb]

I have 26 foot of double wall stove pipe and chimney. I still have to use a torch to get the draft going about 50% of the time. Even with an outside air kit. I always have. Its not a big deal cause im going to use the same torch to start the super cider and usually its like 10 - 15 seconds of shooting it towards the opening.

 

[cahaak]

I have a drolet myriad. I start the fire and close the door within 25 seconds. I never have issues and I start my fire without kindling 90 percent of the time. I also burn very dry wood.

 

[30WCF]

Here is a top down I did last year. It’s the only way I start fires in my stove.
Light it. Close the door a few minutes later. You can see I latched it here when the Auber reads about 450.
It ran up to 6-something then starts settling down. But you don’t touch it for a couple hours after you light I and shut the door.