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Dont burn Bio Bricks in your Jotul.

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by MountainStoveGuy, Oct 27, 2006.

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  1. BioPellet

    BioPellet New Member

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    Hey guys! Look! I just hooked a ludite!!!

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    We spell it with two d's.
  3. BioPellet

    BioPellet New Member

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    To be clear, its brother bart thats the ludite
  4. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Large L, two d's.
  5. stovepipe?

    stovepipe? New Member

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    I just today tried biobricks in my jotul 3cb. they are great! easy to start up, burn forever, no need to stir/poke, and no real need to pack the firebox full since one can do just fine with 6-10 bricks stacked close together. pack them in and its like a single giant very well seasoned spilt that's molded to fit the firebox. and they don't burn out of control. perhaps they would if one left lots of airspace and stirred them up, but that would defeat the purpose. yeah, in principle you can overfire your stove, but you can do this with a bunch of well-seasoned wood too. one has to use common sense no matter what one is burning. the only drawback with these (apart from price-- which is still pretty reasonable relative to cordwood in my area) is they haven't got any of the romance of a log on the fire. they are burning bricks. But if you're looking for a nice hot hassle-free fire, they're great.

    biobrick guy-- hook up with a retailer in southern/seacoast NH and I'll be a regular customer.
  6. biggins08

    biggins08 New Member

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    Lot's of player hating going on ......
  7. BioPellet

    BioPellet New Member

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    Great feedback. I concur completely. You can overfire a stove with conventional wood too.

    Check my website BioPellet.net there are already dealers somewhat near you. Let me know is this is not the case. Also look at Sanford ME.
  8. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Yo Craig! Send this guy an invoice.
  9. stovepipe?

    stovepipe? New Member

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    BB-- you mean me? I was under the impression we were here to share experiences that might be helpful to others. as much as we're all warmed by your cynicism, I'd rather spend my evening with a biobrick. 1890 posts and how many of them obnoxious? What comes after "master of fire"? 'burn-out'?
  10. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    The invoice is referencing the bio pellet guy's advertising in the forum when Craig has asked that the post be non-commercial.

    1761.
  11. wg_bent

    wg_bent Minister of Fire

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    Uh Huh!!
  12. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    No , it would be ......... " Over Fired " :lol:

    Here is a thread i ran a few #' on the value of Bio bricks/logs vs cord wood.
    i always wondered why the BTU's of Bio-wood was never listed.

    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/4308/
  13. hardwood715

    hardwood715 Feeling the Heat

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    Read Em, You may find you'll learn something, I sure did?
  14. BioPellet

    BioPellet New Member

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    My BioBricks(tm) are much more EFFICIENT in a wood stove given thier size, shape, density and consistency. Becouase of this you will not capture the advantages of BioBricks by comparing BTUs/lb. Cordwood is very inconsistant. You have bg pieces and small pieces and wet pieces and dry pieces and because of all this variation there are parts of the cordwood fuel that are not at combustion temperature and that means smoke and that means wasted BTUs.

    1 lb of my BioBricks get the same amount of heat into the house as 1.7 lb of typical (21% moisture) cordwood based on test burns where I then integrated the heat of the stove over time.
  15. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Well sure , When you compare BioBricks to soft pine wood I'm sure they do.

    When compared to a hard wood there about the same and 200% more money.

    The shown comparison of BioBricks 2200 lbs to 2700 lbs cordwood = a very soft cord wood like pine or cottonwood. Hard wood per cord is going to be in the upper 4400 lbs - 4800- lbs
    To me thats not real world comparison on Bio's pert , but is a great sale tactic.

    Bio cost $458.00 more than Osage Orange cord. @ around the same BTUs ( 33. / 32.5 )
  16. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Copied from the Bio thread:

    So if you compared 1 pallet of BioBricks and/or energy logs cost at say $299. per ton/pallet at 16. mil btu per (internet price i found )

    VS

    Oak @ 1 cord wood at 27.5 mil BTU per cord @ what ever a local cord price is.

    (My local Oak cord prices is around $140. per/cord)

    To compare BTU of Oak cordwood to bio at around 16. mil btu

    So that puts 1/2 a cord Oak at 13.75 BTUs @ $70.00 (1850 lbs )
    &
    Bio wood 16. mil BTU per pallet @ $299.00 (2200 lbs )

    *************************************************************************

    Notes:

    1 cord of OAK is 27.5 mil BTU per cord @ 3700 lbs. = $140.00
    1/2 cord of oak mil BTU per 1/2 13.75 weighs 1850 lbs = $70.00

    1 cord of Osage Orange is 32.5 mil BTU per cord @ 4728 lbs = $140.00
    1/2 cord Osage Orange mil BTU per 1/2 16.25 weighs 2364 lbs = $70.00

    Bio at 33. mil BTU for 2 pallets @ 4400 lbs = $598.00
    Bio at 16.5 BTU per mill 1 pallet 2200 lbs = $299.00

    Bio pallet @ 2 VS Osage Orange cord @1:
    Bio is 328 lbs less
    Bio is 627 btu more per lb.
    Bio cost $458.00 more than Osage Orange cord. @ around the same BTUs ( 33. / 32.5 )
  17. BioPellet

    BioPellet New Member

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    Yeh .... you still aren't getting it.

    Again, 1 pound of BioBricks(tm) brings as much heat into the house as 1.7 pounds of cordwood - be it pine or oak or any other wood
  18. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    I dont think you get it ................

    You cant compare 1.7 lbs of pine to 1.7 lbs of Oak and call it the same BTU or heat value.
    I guess you need to explain it a different way.
  19. BioPellet

    BioPellet New Member

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    most wood has the same btus/lb, variying by less than 10%. Conifers, btw, generally ahve more btus per pound given thier higher Lignin %
  20. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Cottonwood / Pine Mil BTU per cord: 16.7 Weight:2680lbs

    Hedge Apple Mil BTU per cord: 32.5 Weight:4728lbs

    Both being 128 cf / 1 cord of wood.
  21. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    OK , Again ..........When comparing BioBricks to Hedgeapple and being about the same weight of 2 pallets of bio to 1 cord of Hedge apple and about the same BTU per total weight and per lbs ..............How do you get a lot more heat ?

    Your telling me you get almost twice as much heat from Bio then cord wood being Hedge Apple at the same BTU per lbs ??


    I dont understand , If there the same BTU then where does the twice extra heat come from ?

    1 cord of Osage Orange is 32.5 mil BTU per cord @ 4728 lbs = $140.00
    1/2 cord Osage Orange mil BTU per 1/2 16.25 weighs 2364 lbs = $70.00

    Bio at 33. mil BTU for 2 pallets @ 4400 lbs = $598.00
    Bio at 16.5 BTU per mill 1 pallet 2200 lbs = $299.00

    Bio pallet @ 2 VS Osage Orange cord @1:
    Bio is 328 lbs less
    Bio is 627 btu more per lb.
    Bio cost $458.00 more than Osage Orange cord. @ around the same BTUs ( 33. / 32.5 )
  22. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Bio is correct that most wood has the same BTU per pound.

    You also definitely have to consider that a pound of biobricks weighs one pound, while a cord of wood is usually short! In other words, it is rare to get the full 128 cubic feet or 4,000 pounds of useful wood.

    There are many ways to skin a cat!

    A more fair comparison would be biobricks to pellets. A ton of each are similar prices. You are paying for the work, shipping, raw materials and profit involved - and you get an easier to use product.

    Price is not the only issue - and if it is, a person would usually not want to burn biobricks. In other words, they are not for the central heat crowd nor the 10 cord a year woodsman.

    Real world - A usual (short) cord of mixed harwoods might be 3,000 pounds if dried to the same moisture content. Softwoods, which are all you get in many areas of the USA, are closer to 2,000 - or the same as a ton of bios.

    Again, a comparison to pellets is more accurate. As far as tests, I would await true lab testing before thinking that bios were vastly more efficient. I think they could be 20% more efficient at most. In other words, a stove might be 60% efficient with decent seasoned firewood and 70% with bios. But saying they are 70% more efficient would suggest that a new stove is 50% efficient with firewood and 85% with bios - both numbers seem out of kilter.

    We always have to get back to using renewable fuel....in other words, many "green" people have claimed they would pay MORE for renewable local fuels. Well, here is your chance! I'm dead serious about this - pellets are somewhat in the same boat. They may not be the cheapest fuel, buy you do feel good about burning them!

    Oh, and Ross - calm down! We're all on the same side.... :coolsmile:
  23. GVA

    GVA Minister of Fire

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    I see what Biopellet is saying BTU's per pound is close to the same, but as roospike is pointing out you get more btu's at a lower cost than the Bio bricks
  24. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Hey, I'll accept money anytime.....

    I don't mind the forum being used to introduce or discuss new products. Bio may be biased (as we all are toward our own products), but he/she is definitely a part of a growing industry that we all have interest in.

    BTW, it is OK for both shops, vendors and merchants here to use their URL in their signatures (at least until further notice).....no problem with full disclosure.

    In my opinion the best thing that can happen in more biobricks, more pellets, more corn/biofuels and more firewood! As far as my income, it will follow naturally - when bio sees how many people read this thread, he will want to do more advertising before any competitors arise and get the jump on him!

    Oh, and I guess biobrick prices can be reported under firewood in the new price guide - just select "ton" and mention bios in the comments.
  25. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Actually i was comparing more of a real world #'s and not exact Bio to maybe a cord of wood.

    If Oak is 4500 lbs a cord and i was delivered 3000 lbs as stated then i think one would notice.

    Pellets are different animal and not in the same class as a wood stove. The Bio brick are working into the wood stove class because they are burned in a wood stove.

    When people burn for heat as most do here we are in the bulk class of fuel so it would be more real world to compare tons , pallets , cords and yearly cost and not 1 lb to 1 lb . IMO

    If the average user used 4 cords of wood at 32.5 mil BTU per cord (hedge as stated) then lets compare 4 cords.

    It then would take about 8 pallets of BioBricks to do the same as the stated wood .

    4 cords of hedge wood @ $140. per cord ( my local price ) = $560.00

    8 pallets of BioBricks @ $299.00 per pallet (internet price ) = $2392.00

    So with that said , now you have to compare your over all yearly cord wood price ($560.00 as shown for me) vs your NG gas , LP , Electric , fuel oil per yearly use.

    Then you have to compare your over all yearly BioBrick price ($2392.00 internet price) vs your NG gas , LP , Electric , fuel oil per yearly use.

    One you compare then you can figure out what is your better value.

    Now that real world #'s to me IMO.
    Its just like Craig always points out about the cost of pellets vs fuel oil to be worth the change.
    BioBrick for me would cost a lot more than Natural Gas + add on the extra work of burning bricks.
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