door gasket talk

[beermann]

I have glass doors in my old masonry fireplace. Never used it yet and I'm doing a lot of small things with it to make it as efficient as I can. I have these gaps which are only really bad near the top of my doors. I know about fibreglass gaskets but if I use it on my door I do not think I'll be able to close it as nearing the middle and bottom on the doors it seals to a snug fit. Applying the gasket would stop the door from closing. And I cannot seem to tighten the upper clasp to be firmer. Looks as though it was placed in with a rivit of some kind.

Is there an alternate option I have not discovered yet or just don't know the name of?

Attached are photo's of the gap as well as images showing the type of surface I'm working with. You'll also see a photo near the first hing about halfway down the door. It is air tight in this area.

Let me know your thoughts and suggestions. I won't be able to replace the doors.

 

[begreen]

The doors do not look like they are intended to be gasketed.

 

[rwhite]

Are you thinking of gaskets so it burns more efficiently or seal air when it's not burning? Most open fireplace doors are not intended to be used while shut. Not only will it not draw enough air they aren't made to handle the temps. Your fighting a losing battle for efficiency IMO.

 

[beermann]

Are you thinking of gaskets so it burns more efficiently or seal air when it's not burning? Most open fireplace doors are not intended to be used while shut. Not only will it not draw enough air they aren't made to handle the temps. Your fighting a losing battle for efficiency IMO.

Thank you for your input

I am referring to a gasket so it burns more efficiently. I have air vents on the bottom of the unit (piture below) and I am planning on routing the ash dump to fresh air and placing an insert over the ash dump with vents near the front of the fireplace. I also need to replace the glass so I can get higher heat resistant glass. Would doing all this help to make it more efficient and use the outside air as fuel?

 

[rwhite]

Thank you for your input

I am referring to a gasket so it burns more efficiently. I have air vents on the bottom of the unit (piture below) and I am planning on routing the ash dump to fresh air and placing an insert over the ash dump with vents near the front of the fireplace. I also need to replace the glass so I can get higher heat resistant glass. Would doing all this help to make it more efficient and use the outside air as fuel?

Not likely depending on the flue size fireplaces need a lot of air. I don't know that the bottom slots could provide enough. I've been down this road before. You can spend a lot of money on gadgets, new glass etc with minimal gains. Hate to have you look back $3-500 later and still be disappointed.

 

[beermann]

Not likely depending on the flue size fireplaces need a lot of air. I don't know that the bottom slots could provide enough. I've been down this road before. You can spend a lot of money on gadgets, new glass etc with minimal gains. Hate to have you look back $3-500 later and still be disappointed.

Disappointing to hear the reality of the situation from another person's experience. I will take your word on it and move forward with cheap resourceful solutions to test things out with.

I already need a new glass panel as the last owner likely broke it when burning it with the doors closed during a strong burn. I'll get a high grade replacement for the one window and ill be cautious on when I close the door during a burn.

The flue Looks roughly 1'x1' ill measure later when I'm home. I'll post a picture as well. If I'm doing this project I definitely want to hear what you have to say.

 

[beermann]

unless someone has a good solution I may be dropping the whole gasket on the top gap of the door idea.

 

[edyit]

I have glass doors in my old masonry fireplace. Never used it yet and I'm doing a lot of small things with it to make it as efficient as I can.

If you're going to try and make it as efficient as you can then I would suggest getting a certified installer (WETT in Canada iirc) to come and install an insulated liner to either an insert or a free standing stove that will fit your hearth and opening dimensions. Most fireplaces are just not efficient at all and it's not uncommon to see them have a net loss. I'd also suggest that since you've never used it before, have the chimney inspected before you get a fire going in there. Always better to err on the side of caution.

 

[beermann]

I agree with you 100%. My plan is to do everything to the fireplace and then have it inspected. I'm using the forums here as an outlet to rule out and add to my to-do list.

I did look into getting a small stove to fit but with the cost being $3000 I am not able to come up with that kind of money for a while. Just trying to make what I have work and if it ends up being a drain on my heating bill then I won't be doing it.

 

[beermann]

Any insert or stove would have to be 20"x20" as the arc on the front of the fireplace won't allow for anything bigger to squeeze in. Doing larger renovations like this would be out of the question. The glass is $150 and materials to make an exterior air supply will cost me below $50 as I kknow some people with stuff I can use.

 

[beermann]

The doors do not look like they are intended to be gasketed.

No they don't. I am hoping to figure out how to close the gap on the top so when the fire is low it can draw air from the ash dump. Or at least from the existing air vents.

 

[begreen]

Is the gap at the top is intentional? Wondering if it might be a basic airwash for the glass?

 

[beermann]

Is the gap at the top is intentional? Wondering if it might be a basic airwash for the glass?

That's really interesting, I'll look around and read up later tonight to see if they are made like this.

One thing I notice is that the top clasp is very loose and the bottom clasp is very tight. I just made the assumption that the previous user only clasped the top of the door and messed up the curve. My assumption is likly wrong and yours makes much more sence.

Knowing this may be the reason and until I know more if I end up somehow making my fireplace doors airtight ill make sure I have the option to revert back to the original state. It's for this reason I don't want to drill or bolt down anything inside the fireplace when attempting the outside air intake through the ash dump from the basement to the outside. Until I know how well it all works I won't be doing anything permanent. I'll also be bringing in profesionals when I'm done so they can certify that I'm not being one of the too crazy-crazies definitly going for a professional look when it's all done.

Below is some extra info that will provide more info for everyone.

Something worth noting about my fireplace usage in the future is that I work a lot of night shift and when I'm off for the weekend or week I tend to have an odd sleeping schedule. so If I'm up at 3am and it's 60-62 fahrenheit (16-17celcius) inside I'd mainly want to burn a small fire with well seasoned logs to take the chill out of the living room by sitting beside the fire and watching TV or reading/games/whatever (you know what I mean). I don't want to crank the central air or have it kicking on every 5 minutes due to lighting a fire and so I'm hoping the outside intake is going to work as I'd hate to freeze out my kids down the hall, They already have the two coldest rooms. (one floor 3 bedroom house with a half finished basement. I cannot use my basement for my leisure time, I rent it out)
Upgrading to an insert or stove is definitely a goal of mine but until I reach the financial ability to do this I can only work with what I have. I am fortunate to have people who will help me out and entertain ideas, suggestions and word of caution.

I do think there is a solution that will work in certain conditions. For me it's about taking the chill out of a room and not heating the entire house or compromising family comfort or cash flow.

A lot of this isn't directed to your response specifically it's just provided for anyone else interested in providing input as well.

 

[bholler]

unless someone has a good solution I may be dropping the whole gasket on the top gap of the door idea.

Honestly in most cases when I see people doing stuff like this to try to make their open fireplace more efficient they and up limiting the air to much and causing a mess of creosote in the chimney due to that.

 

[beermann]

Honestly in most cases when I see people doing stuff like this to try to make their open fireplace more efficient they and up limiting the air to much and causing a mess of creosote in the chimney due to that.

That's really useful info. So do you think sealing it tight and having an outside airflow from an ashdump won't work? What if the ash dump was vented outside from the basement and some vent holes placed in the rear of the fireplace. Vent holes would be safely covered and sealed from the fire with the same insert that coveres the ash dump......maby I need a new thread for this topic.

 

[beermann]

I am rather determined to make it work. I won't be moving forward for a few months at least.

 

[bholler]

That's really useful info. So do you think sealing it tight and having an outside airflow from an ashdump won't work? What if the ash dump was vented outside from the basement and some vent holes placed in the rear of the fireplace. Vent holes would be safely covered and sealed from the fire with the same insert that coveres the ash dump......maby I need a new thread for this topic.

If you give it enough air volume it will work but you still wont get much of any heat out of it.

 

[begreen]

I don't want to crank the central air or have it kicking on every 5 minutes due to lighting a fire and so I'm hoping the outside intake is going to work as I'd hate to freeze out my kids down the hall, They already have the two coldest rooms. (one floor 3 bedroom house with a half finished basement.

Is there a primary heating system that normally kicks in? Wondering if it is getting affected with the thermostat reading high due to the fireplace warmth? If so, an oil-filled electric radiator in each room might keep them more comfortable.

 

[rwhite]

Here is my list of failures:
1. Tube grate. Found it used but it still was $50. Only convected heat until all the tubes warmed up then it was just a grate.

2. Replaced screen with doors. $250. This just let me seal up the big hole a bit better so I didn't lose heat. It was prettier than the old screen but still ineffective at heating.

There was something else to but I can't remember. Basically spent $3-400 on snake oil. I ended up with a used Osburn 1600 insert for $300, new insulated liner and a DIY install. All in with a hearth extension I was around $11-1200. I would have broke even in year on NG even if I never lit a fire just by putting something in the fireplace to stop the cold air flow. As it was I think around 6 months maybe it paid for itself.

 

[beermann]

If you give it enough air volume it will work but you still wont get much of any heat out of it.

Assuming it has enough airflow from the ashdump and some potential airholes all safely put together....if I custom fit an air exchanger to the existing adjustable vents along the front would it pump out enough heat?

Maby running it from the bottom right, along the bottom to the rear, across and down to the left. Do they work?

 

[bholler]

Assuming it has enough airflow from the ashdump and some potential airholes all safely put together....if I custom fit an air exchanger to the existing adjustable vents along the front would it pump out enough heat?

It is an open fireplace it will never be an effective heater. The problem is you need enough heat and air going out the chimney to prevent creosote buildup. If you were able to extract enough heat from it you would then be cooling the exhaust and would risk creating allot of creosote. If you completly redesigned the box to a rumford style box supplied it with enough outside air and down sized you liner you could get some decent heat. But you would have allot less money and work for more heat by just installing an insert and liner.

 

[rwhite]

Assuming it has enough airflow from the ashdump and some potential airholes all safely put together....if I custom fit an air exchanger to the existing adjustable vents along the front would it pump out enough heat?

Maby running it from the bottom right, along the bottom to the rear, across and down to the left. Do they work?

For any heat you produce the loss will be 10 fold as soon as the fire goes out. I honestly think they draw more warm air out of the home for combustion than they produce.

 

[beermann]

Here is my list of failures:
1. Tube grate. Found it used but it still was $50. Only convected heat until all the tubes warmed up then it was just a grate.

2. Replaced screen with doors. $250. This just let me seal up the big hole a bit better so I didn't lose heat. It was prettier than the old screen but still ineffective at heating.

There was something else to but I can't remember. Basically spent $3-400 on snake oil. I ended up with a used Osburn 1600 insert for $300, new insulated liner and a DIY install. All in with a hearth extension I was around $11-1200. I would have broke even in year on NG even if I never lit a fire just by putting something in the fireplace to stop the cold air flow. As it was I think around 6 months maybe it paid for itself.

Thank you for this. I appreciate hearing your experience with a similar set-up. I will avoid the convection grate and if anything ill end up with a decorative fireplace that doesn't suck air in from my living area.

 

[beermann]

Thanks everyone. Looks like I have a good chunk of info to consider and read up on. Rumford style box, Creasote and airflow from outside air supply.

I hope I can come back with potential solutions. Thanks.

 

[beermann]

For any heat you produce the loss will be 10 fold as soon as the fire goes out. I honestly think they draw more warm air out of the home for combustion than they produce.

I'll post detailed pics of what I'm thinking of. The idea just poped into my head so I havnt really gave It much thought.