Draft issue?

[TonyE]

Hi all,
Apologies in advance for the long post but I think it best to give a detailed explanation up front.
I have just installed a new Drolet Escape 1800 and chimney system in a 1980 something manufactured home. Lit a few break in fires on cold mornings in the 30s. Fire burns fine with the door open but smolders with the door closed even after burning for thirty minutes. I can't close the door until it has almost reached the coaling stage. (Air intake open). When I close the door I get a few minutes of secondary flames then smolder. I know the recently split "seasoned" wood that I bought doesn't help but it's not much better with pallet wood or camp camp fire wood from Walmart. Stove pipe is double wall 5' 6" from stove top to ceiling box. 7" offset with elbows at the stove and ceiling creating a slight angle of about 15 degrees? 7' of chimney pipe from the ceiling box through the attic and roof. Cap is about 3' above ridge which is 7' away from chimney. I was thinking about adding another 2 or 3 ft of chimney pipe to see if that would help. I would appreciate suggestions.

Tony

 

[kborndale]

Wet wood+short chimney=difficult burning. Most stoves want a minimum of 15 feet of chimney. Adding more chimney will definitely help draft. Are the elbows 90s or 45s? Elbows slow down your draft even more

 

[TonyE]

Wet wood+short chimney=difficult burning. Most stoves want a minimum of 15 feet of chimney. Adding more chimney will definitely help draft. Are the elbows 90s or 45s? Elbows slow down your draft even more

Elbows are 45deg adjustables. As I said they are adjusted to only a slight angle of about 15 deg. The Drolet air intake handle seems to have a rather short travel as compared to my previous PE Alderlea T5. With the Alderlea I could light the paper and close the door moments later and yet still turn it down and burn all night. Too bad that they are now well out of my price range. Boy do I miss that stove! I wonder if 2 ft additional chimney would be enough or if I should go for 3. I will need a support bracket either way. 7 feet of stainless steel chimney sticking up from my ranch roof (6'above ridge) may look a little silly but I'll do what is necessary.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Is your chimney and cap clean?

 

[TonyE]

Brand new everything

 

[stoveliker]

It is a manufactured home; they can be very tight.
Do you have an outside air kit installed?

If not enough air can come in thru leaks, the stove will have a hard time drafting.

 

[TonyE]

No better with window open. I'm thinking add another section of chimney pipe. I wish I knew if 2ft would be enough. It's going to look especially weird since house is on a hill.

 

[EbS-P]

You should get a moisture meter. I believe the manual wants 12’ adding something (not sure what) for the bends.

Try cracking a window. Build a top down fire and use a ridiculous amount of dry kindling. In my 1800i my cold start only gets 1 layer of big splits on the bottom and the kindling touches the tubes. I don’t know where the air intake for the stove version is. Maybe someone else can chime in.

 

[stoveliker]

That ^^

If it just stops burning with a window open, most likely your wood is too wet. Yes, draft may not be perfect, but let's rule out other things. A moisture meter costs $30 ish

 

[GrumpyDad]

No better with window open. I'm thinking add another section of chimney pipe. I wish I knew if 2ft would be enough. It's going to look especially weird since house is on a hill.

View attachment 301368

That stuff is expensive and once you use it, no returns.
Id try to find something really dry, that you know they didnt store outside (like walmart does with their wood most of the time). Use a hair dryer to heat the flue, then get a kindling fire going and then burn your really dry stuff and see if that helps. If it does you know you need to get a moisture meter and source some good wood. Or find some sawdust bricks that are stored inside to test as well. Many people here buy pallets of those because it's easier than dealing with wood. If it is only marginally better, then you know for sure you have a drafting issue assuming something isnt opening on your stove.

 

[neverstop]

minimum chimney height for this stove states 12'. you have 2 slight bends so this probably means you require some height about 12'. the not so seasoned wood isn't helping start the fire.

extending the chimney will improve draft but improved draft doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be able to start the fire with wet wood

 

[TonyE]

minimum chimney height for this stove states 12'. you have 2 slight bends so this probably means you require some height about 12'. the not so seasoned wood isn't helping start the fire.

extending the chimney will improve draft but improved draft doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be able to start the fire with wet wood

This is true. But even dry lumber didn't burn great. I had to wait for a second round of dry lumber fully lit and some coals in order to close the door. The door slightly open does produce a strong bellows effect which burns through the lumber pretty quick. I also made sure the baffle was pushed to the rear and the secondary tubes were in place. The wood I have isn't fully seasoned but isn't green either. Most of it is from dead ash trees and black locust. Most of the bark is gone or falling off and two pieces knocked together make a bonk not a thud. Splits do feel damp inside the locust. I will order a moisture meter and pick up some saw dust bricks and see how that goes. I'll have to look into bricks by the pallet for this winter. I have no idea if some are better than others or where to source them in bulk. Must be cheaper than oil!

 

[begreen]

Sounds like incompletely seasoned wood. It may seem dry on the outside, but inside it can still be damp. Try adding a few 2x4 cut offs to the fire. And skip the locust for a fire or two, just try the ash. Locust takes at least 2 yrs to season and needs a hot fire start to burn well even when seasoned.

 

[Eman85]

My chimney is just like yours and it drafts fine with my Encore.

 

[Beary]

In my limited experience.... the adjustable elbows can have a good amount of air gaps that wind up sucking air in em...
The bend itself doesn't help velocity, but I bet the leaky straw effect if any gaps also helps kill the already limited draft.

 

[TonyE]

I will check with the incense test when it gets cold enough for a fire. If they do leak, is there a way to seal them?

 

[GrumpyDad]

This is true. But even dry lumber didn't burn great. I had to wait for a second round of dry lumber fully lit and some coals in order to close the door. The door slightly open does produce a strong bellows effect which burns through the lumber pretty quick. I also made sure the baffle was pushed to the rear and the secondary tubes were in place. The wood I have isn't fully seasoned but isn't green either. Most of it is from dead ash trees and black locust. Most of the bark is gone or falling off and two pieces knocked together make a bonk not a thud. Splits do feel damp inside the locust. I will order a moisture meter and pick up some saw dust bricks and see how that goes. I'll have to look into bricks by the pallet for this winter. I have no idea if some are better than others or where to source them in bulk. Must be cheaper than oil!

If you have a rural king around you, they seem to be the cheapest followed by tractor supply.
If dry lumber isnt burning, you have something else wrong I would imagine.
Are you sure the air control is working properly? If opening the doors helps immensely, that would be what I would focus on.
Sure you could get some sawdust bricks as well to try.
How are you stacking the dry lumber in the stove once you have coals from kindling fire? Criss cross some pieces so flames draw upwards and touch the various pieces as you stack.
Ive only had one time when it seemed like I wasnt getting stuff to burn and that was wet stuff, and eventually it burns well enough when you eventually get a good bed of coals but it takes twice as long and you get ALOT of smoke coming out of the chimney. This was in the fireplace. If I take dry scraps of 3/4" paneling, it BURNS and the flames fly all around. If your flames seem lack luster and lazy, then there is an air control issue I would think, or it's not getting enough air - check to make sure there isnt some foam packaging material stuck in the air intake or something.
When I received my stove I had foam packed inside the firebox, and a piece near the damper. When I pulled it out, I had a small piece fall and get stuck and used a screw driver to stab it to pull it up to the point that I could reach it.

 

[TonyE]

I checked and nothing blocking the very small air intake. The lever only moves along a short travel that changes from a tiny to small opening and the air needs to come through a hole in the back of the dust pan to get to that. Unless air comes in from somewhere else, I can see why a tremendous draft is needed to pull air through that opening to feed the fire. I'm surprised that it doesn't whistle.

 

[EbS-P]

I checked and nothing blocking the very small air intake. The lever only moves along a short travel that changes from a tiny to small opening and the air needs to come through a hole in the back of the dust pan to get to that. Unless air comes in from somewhere else, I can see why a tremendous draft is needed to pull air through that opening to feed the fire. I'm surprised that it doesn't whistle.

There should be a secondary air intake too.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Should be an area to connect a fresh air intake 5" wide. A tube. Like on the pedestal model there is a kit that leads to back or bottom of the pedestal with a 5" pipe. Search your issue here I read another thread some guy found insulation blocking stuff

 

[Split]

Something doesn't seem right. You obviously have experience with stoves so you most likely know if your wood is wet or not. That ait intake being so short seems odd.

Best of luck.

 

[TonyE]

Nothing blocking air flow. There is a large opening in the back of the stove for an air intake kit and a smaller hole in line with that in the dust pan. The front air intake is also within the first pan. I did the incense test and the elbows and pipe show no leaks. Picked up a moisture meter and most of the wood is 20 -24 %. I got hold of a small amount of beech that is 16% and also picked up a ton of Green Heat blocks. Definitely burns better with the beech and blocks. North/ South loading is also much better but the 16" splits won't fit that way. It still takes way more time than I like with the door open and lots of dry kindling to get it going but at least I can close the door after about 20 minutes and eventually turn down the air for overnight burn. I'll keep buying/cutting wood for the years ahead and use the blocks and whatever dry stuff I can get this year. Thanks for all of your info and suggestions.

 

[stoveliker]

20 to 24 pct after having had the splits inside for 24 hrs so they get up to room temperature, and then resplit so you can measure on the freshly exposed inside?

 

[TonyE]

No. Resplit and checked outside. Does keeping it inside for 24h give a higher or lower reading than taking a split from outside?

 

[stoveliker]

Thst depends on how cold it is. I think from 35 to 70 F can change the reading by 3 pct, if my memory is correct.

Measuring a cold piece of wood will lead to a lower measured value because the electric resistance is higher when it's cold.

So when you warm it up, your meter will indicate a higher mc value. They are calibrated at 70 F.