Draft issues on PE Spectrum

[n1st]

I think I'm having some draft problems. Its not burning as well even with the vent wide open. Seems like I have to get a lot of wood in it to get a good flame. I looked at the cap and saw soot, nothing goopey and nothing restricting the pipe (there's no screen, just a band around the cap). Been burning for about 1 month. I do have lots of ashes at the moment - up to the door and compacted. Can too much ash restrict air flow? Where does the air come into the Spectrum and can it get blocked with ash or coals? Can too many coals prevent a good flame on the wood by hogging the air?

 

[budman]

Sounds like your wood supply but lets see what the rest of the members say. :grrr:

 

[Gooserider]

What does your flue look like? Size? Height? Inside or outside?

Is this something that just started, or is it something that's been going on for a while? If it is something that just started, check for possible flue obstructions (unlikely) or problems with your wood. One way to eliminate the wood as a problem, is to get a bundle or two of that overpriced stuff from the supermarket. If that burns good, the problem is your wood, if not, it's something else.

Try digging out some of the ash, and letting some of the coals burn down - see if that helps, but it doesn't sound like the problem.

Gooserider

 

[n1st]

Sometimes when it's not burning well and I open the vent wider, it blows out the flames on the logs! Hmm. Wood is oak and looks and feels dry.

 

[webbie]

can u answer goose about flue height, and flue type (metal, masonry, etc.)

 

[Gunner]

I do have lots of ashes at the moment - up to the door and compacted. Can too much ash restrict air flow? Where does the air come into the Spectrum and can it get blocked with ash or coals?

Ding Ding!
Primary air comes in the front, just below the door. Dig out the ashes and you will see the air holes in the "bump out".

 

[n1st]

Flue Description:
Flue goes up about 3 ft then 90 degree, then elbow, then straight piece thru exterior wall.

"Size?"
6". Stainless steel. New this fall.

"Height?"
About 12 feet up to roof line then 5 ft more above roof line.

"Is this something that just started, or is it something that’s been going on for a while?"
About last weekend, I thought to myself that it wasn't as easy to maintain the fire. So, yes just recently. I have been using different wood this week (different supplier) - trying to keep my large pieces for over night. Perhaps it is the wood. Another odd thing is that I have lots of coal chunks that just keep building up. I think this too is a symptom of poor burning - I keep adding wood to get the house warm before the coals have burned down completely.

 

[budman]

I do have lots of ashes at the moment - up to the door and compacted. Can too much ash restrict air flow? Where does the air come into the Spectrum and can it get blocked with ash or coals?

Ding Ding!
Primary air comes in the front, just below the door. Dig out the ashes and you will see the air holes in the "bump out".

Gunner,if the PE stoves primary air comes in from the bottom how dose the air wash for
the doors work.

 

[n1st]

That's what I was wondering... if I was blocking the vent holes. I didn't realize they were in that bump below the door.

I think the gaps on each end of the bump also allow the air to pass through. So, how do you clean the ash out that falls in thru the 2 gaps and the vent holes?

 

[Gunner]

I have the summit not the spectrum so the "boost manifolds" are a little different. On mine there is a plate that covers the manifold, stopping ash from coming right up against the air inlets. I don't think there is on the spec but I'm not 100% sure. Either way don't let ash built up that high particularly in the front and you won't have a problem.

More than 2" of ash is a PITA. You will be left with more coal, you have less room for wood, and it becomes harder to manage the coal bed, rake, move forward etc. etc.

 

[Gunner]

I do have lots of ashes at the moment - up to the door and compacted. Can too much ash restrict air flow? Where does the air come into the Spectrum and can it get blocked with ash or coals?

Ding Ding!
Primary air comes in the front, just below the door. Dig out the ashes and you will see the air holes in the "bump out".

Gunner,if the PE stoves primary air comes in from the bottom how dose the air wash for
the doors work.

There is air wash from the top in addition to the primary air at the bottom.

 

[thechimneysweep]

PE's get primary air from two sources: the airwash that comes down across the inside of the viewing window from the top of the door, and the holes in the booster plate described above.

By the time the airwash air has traveled the height of the door and is drawn backward into the fire by the chimney updraft it doesn't have much velocity. The holes in the booster plate deliver shots of air that hasn't been through the airwash system, right out of the plenum. The holes are aimed straight back from the bottom of the door, so the booster air shoots right at the base of the fire with some velocity. This definitely aids combustion.

I'm a bit of a lazy ash tender, and when my ash bed builds up so high it blocks the booster holes I know immediately by observing the fire that it is time to clear the booster holes. Because of the incoming airflow, ash doesn't tend to pour backwards into the holes in any quantity, but I have had to remove the booster plate (it just lifts out) a time or two and vacuum out the area behind it.

 

[BrotherBart]

I do have lots of ashes at the moment - up to the door and compacted. Can too much ash restrict air flow? Where does the air come into the Spectrum and can it get blocked with ash or coals?

Ding Ding!
Primary air comes in the front, just below the door. Dig out the ashes and you will see the air holes in the "bump out".

Gunner,if the PE stoves primary air comes in from the bottom how dose the air wash for
the doors work.

There is air wash from the top in addition to the primary air at the bottom.

Most of the non-cats are the same way. There is an opening in the primary manifold under the door dead center in the middle. Air comes through it and also from over the top of the glass. LOPI's free standing stoves are that way too but I don't know about the Declaration. That is something I like about the little "doghouse" on the 30-NC. They put it high so the ash and coals don't block it. Lots of the others have it down below in the front of the manifold.

 

[n1st]

Thanks everyone. It's burning much better now that I've scooped out the ash. After I cleaned all the ash out last time, I read that I should leave some in, so I left a lot in. Now I've learned that you can have too much ash.

Live, err, learn, live, err again....

 

[Tone]

I just bought and setup the alderlea T5 which I believe has the same basic design. I didn't remove the knockout plate in the underside of the ash pan at first and had some draft issues. I don't know why it is left in from the factory but after it's removal my draft has improved.

 

[n1st]

Thanks, I checked that - mine has been knocked out. If it's not knocked out, I bet it really has an effect.

 

[Gooserider]

Flue Description:
Flue goes up about 3 ft then 90 degree, then elbow, then straight piece thru exterior wall.

"Size?"
6". Stainless steel. New this fall.

"Height?"
About 12 feet up to roof line then 5 ft more above roof line.

"Is this something that just started, or is it something that’s been going on for a while?"
About last weekend, I thought to myself that it wasn't as easy to maintain the fire. So, yes just recently. I have been using different wood this week (different supplier) - trying to keep my large pieces for over night. Perhaps it is the wood. Another odd thing is that I have lots of coal chunks that just keep building up. I think this too is a symptom of poor burning - I keep adding wood to get the house warm before the coals have burned down completely.

Well it sounds from the posts before this that you have found at least part of the problem in that you had an ash blockage on the air supply. This is good!

However I think you also have a somewhat marginal flue setup. From your description it sounds like you have about 20 feet total height, (3' inside, + 17' outside) much of it exterior, and at least two 90* elbows. Standard rules for figuring effective flue heights say to subtract 5' for each 90* bend, leaving you with 10 feet of EFFECTIVE flue height. If I recall other PE discussions I've seen, the manuals for those stoves say you really should have at least 12'. That most of your chimney is exterior probably doesn't help either. You might benefit from adding another 3' or so of height. Knowing that Class A is expensive, if you can get to the chimney easily, a low budget way to see if that helps is to purchase a 3' length of black single wall pipe and stick it into the top of the existing pipe as a TEMPORARY test - Note that this violates all sorts of codes, so don't do it for very long! If it helps, then get an additional length of Class A, and install a proper extension (you might also need additional bracing / guy wires for the added height)

Gooserider

 

[begreen]

If this has recently started happening with a change of wood it sure sounds like damp wood. But you might also want to check the flue cap to see if it is getting plugged.

 

[BrotherBart]

However I think you also have a somewhat marginal flue setup. From your description it sounds like you have about 20 feet total height, (3' inside, + 17' outside) much of it exterior, and at least two 90* elbows. Standard rules for figuring effective flue heights say to subtract 5' for each 90* bend, leaving you with 10 feet of EFFECTIVE flue height. If I recall other PE discussions I've seen, the manuals for those stoves say you really should have at least 12'. That most of your chimney is exterior probably doesn't help either. You might benefit from adding another 3' or so of height. Knowing that Class A is expensive, if you can get to the chimney easily, a low budget way to see if that helps is to purchase a 3' length of black single wall pipe and stick it into the top of the existing pipe as a TEMPORARY test - Note that this violates all sorts of codes, so don't do it for very long! If it helps, then get an additional length of Class A, and install a proper extension (you might also need additional bracing / guy wires for the added height)

PE says to use the height of the stove body in the calculation of that 12 feet Goose.

 

[n1st]

Everything has improved since I lowered the ash level below the bent holes. But, there's still more (for me) to learn...

I took off the L shaped piece with all the vent holes that sits just below and in front of the door. I was surprised to find a single hole about 1/2" going down deeper into the stove body. All the vent air for the L shaped piece must travel through this hole. I doubt much ash could fall beneath the L piece and through this hole, but if it did, could it be cleaned out?

Regarding the marginal flue comment... thanks Goose. I appreciate the suggestion. When I'm starting a fire before it's quite hot, if I turn up the vent, the draft can actually extinguish all the flames. Should I understand this as meaning that I have sufficient draft?

Thanks.

 

[Gooserider]

Everything has improved since I lowered the ash level below the bent holes. But, there's still more (for me) to learn...

I took off the L shaped piece with all the vent holes that sits just below and in front of the door. I was surprised to find a single hole about 1/2" going down deeper into the stove body. All the vent air for the L shaped piece must travel through this hole. I doubt much ash could fall beneath the L piece and through this hole, but if it did, could it be cleaned out?

Regarding the marginal flue comment... thanks Goose. I appreciate the suggestion. When I'm starting a fire before it's quite hot, if I turn up the vent, the draft can actually extinguish all the flames. Should I understand this as meaning that I have sufficient draft?

Thanks.

Don't know about the innards of the stove since I don't have a PE. I would think anything could be cleaned with enough effort, but I don't know what it would take.

As to the draft question - The pellet people would say that the only real way to know for sure would be to take readings under various conditions with a magnehilic or other draft meter. In simpler practice, if you have good control with the stove levers, and aren't having backpuffing problems then you are presumably in an OK range. BB says that PE figures the stove height into their numbers which would help, so you may be right on the edge of the minimum - I would say that if you aren't having any more problems now that you have the ash problem figured out, then you are probably OK. If not, then it's something to keep on the back list of things you could try in the future.

Gooserider

 

[stoveguy2esw]

I do have lots of ashes at the moment - up to the door and compacted. Can too much ash restrict air flow? Where does the air come into the Spectrum and can it get blocked with ash or coals?

Ding Ding!
Primary air comes in the front, just below the door. Dig out the ashes and you will see the air holes in the "bump out".

Gunner,if the PE stoves primary air comes in from the bottom how dose the air wash for
the doors work.

its not the primary , its called tersory air , its a squirt of air under the fire, this allows cleaner combustion within the fire, usually this air is introduced low, on our non-cats is is emitted by a little "periscope" that sits in the doorway, this air is not super critical for combustion per se, but its important for a 'textbook" fire, which gives the max output per split.

i agree , get the ash out and let the "zipper" as we call it , do its job, you will see a better burn

 

[BrotherBart]

Ain't new technology grand. The air distribution in the front of the PE stoves is exactly like my old Sierra insert. Yeah, clean them ashes out and watch'er rock.

 

[Tone]

I've been raking the coals forward before reloading as I have heard suggested. Does this push ash into the front air supply holes?

The draft seems a bit lazy even though it's dry and cold today. I'll have to try removing and cleaning behind the booster plate and see what that does.

Thank goodness for all the experience and willingness to share and help others around here. I'd sure be struggling trying to rely on the dealer that I bought the stove from. They are friendly and willing to help but don't really seem to know too much about this model stove.