Draft Issues- Part Trois

[remkel]

Well, Cmonstart from Black Moose Chimney and Stove came over today to do a chimney cleaning. After an initial sweep he sent a camera up and all I can say is OH MY GOD!

There was a good 1/8- 1/4 inch accummulation of heavy glaze almost the entire length of the chimney. When I saw it on the camera I almost fell to the floor! Sent the chains through and managed to get some of the glaze down so we could see the joints on the liner and found out the joints were not joining. Looks like some shoddy construction on the part of the mason. Needless to say, I will not be using the stove in that chimney again so the old Vigilant will sit in cold silence. My daughters were very disappointed when I informed them the stove would be cold for the rest of the year.

The good news is that it was a selling point to the wife to go out and select a new stove- so the research begins for a suitable replacement for the old VC Vigilant. Perhaps even something a little bigger!

As an aside, and I know everyone looks for recommendations, for those in NH I would highly recommend Black Moose Chimney and Stove out of Antrim. Very professional, set up everything to keep the house clean (even though it was in my basement) and extremely pleasant to deal with. Looking forward to having him back once the new stove is purchased to install the new liner and hook up the new beast.

 

[begreen]

Sorry to hear that the news was not good, but I am really glad that you and your family didn't have any serious consequences. The good news is that with a clean burner, a new liner and dry wood, you may not be seeing a lot of cmonstart after the installation. And you may see a nice drop in wood consumption.

 

[remkel]

Sorry to hear that the news was not good, but I am really glad that you and your family didn't have any serious consequences. The good news is that with a clean burner, a new liner and dry wood, you may not be seeing a lot of cmonstart after the installation. And you may see a nice drop in wood consumption.

Actually, I think my shock was most attributed to the thoughts of what could have happened going through my head.

Amazing part is that I clean the chimney often (at least once a month) and still had this kind of buildup. Not certain what the heck happened, but I think the combination of old stove and poor chimney design/build contributed to what we found.

I still do not think my wife quite grasps how serious the condition we found was. Sometimes I think it best I just leave the worrying to me when these things come into play.

But yes, already researching new stoves. Looking at the Jotul 600 and just took my first gander at the PE Summit. Need something that will generate at least as much heat as the Vigilant, but may also consider going up a size.

The hard part is the quote I just heard from my daughter "I am cold- I wish the wood stove was working". Did not realize just how spoiled the family had become with the old Vigilant cranking in the basement.

 

[begreen]

Do you have any pictures of the flue? They might be educational for others.

For a basic basement heater maybe an Englander 30NC would do the trick? You might give the local home depot's a call to see if they are clearing out inventory. We're seeing some good deals reported now. If you want a nice step up also look at the Quad Isle Royale.

 

[remkel]

I took a look at the Alderlea T6 on the PE website today- claims to heat up to 3000 sq ft but the site states it only has 56,000 BTU output- seems to me to be low BTUs for that amount of space.

As for pictures of the flue- I do not have any photos but I might be able to get some stills from the video sent to me. I will check into it. Honestly, I was shocked!

 

[cmonSTART]

I'll pull some stills from the video tomorrow when I download my cameras. It was fairly impressive.

 

[begreen]

I took a look at the Alderlea T6 on the PE website today- claims to heat up to 3000 sq ft but the site states it only has 56,000 BTU output- seems to me to be low BTUs for that amount of space.

As for pictures of the flue- I do not have any photos but I might be able to get some stills from the video sent to me. I will check into it. Honestly, I was shocked!

Whoopsee, looks like the web designer for the PE site remodel made a copy paste error. The specs listed for the T6 are the same as those listed for the T5. I'll let them know.

The Alderlea T6 has essentially the same spec as the Summit. Max output is around 97K btus. It's slower to get going than the Summit because of the increased mass. But when pushed, it will heat. But it is not like the Vigilant, which is radiant heater. The Isle Royale or F600 would fit that category better if that is what is desired.

 

[Battenkiller]

The Isle Royale or F600 would fit that category better if that is what is desired.

BG is right on the money. You want a powerful radiant heater in your situation. Coming from a handsome top-loader like the Vigilant, I can see you falling in love with a similarly styled top-loader like the Isle Royale for sure. It certainly is high on my short list of potential stoves.


You've had a nice little run with a classic cast stove, but you've been fighting an uphill battle from the beginning with a 30' exterior chimney. Time to move into the modern era with a 6" insulated liner and a stove that vents into 6".

BTW... I'll be out to pick up that junky old Vig next month. :cheese:

 

[remkel]

The Isle Royale or F600 would fit that category better if that is what is desired.

BG is right on the money. You want a powerful radiant heater in your situation. Coming from a handsome top-loader like the Vigilant, I can see you falling in love with a similarly styled top-loader like the Isle Royale for sure. It certainly is high on my short list of potential stoves.


You've had a nice little run with a classic cast stove, but you've been fighting an uphill battle from the beginning with a 30' exterior chimney. Time to move into the modern era with a 6" insulated liner and a stove that vents into 6".

BTW... I'll be out to pick up that junky old Vig next month. :cheese:

I am certain we could work something out if you want it Battenkiller. Otherwise, it would probably be going to the scrap yard.

 

[remkel]

Looks like the F600 would push out an extra 15,000 btu than the Isle Royale, but I will give anything a look I suppose.

Now I know what all those people posting the "Help me find a stove" posts are going through. Tough when you have run nothing but the old VCs all your for 32 of the 40 years of your life.

 

[NH_Wood]

Remi!

Bummer buddy! At least it's not early January! Any chance you can move the stove to the first level when you begin to plan for a new stove? Do you need to keep the stove in the basement? I'm wondering if you can tap into the chimney from you main living area - seems like a better option, but perhaps not possible. The F600 was my second choice - beautiful stove. Is you basement finished? If you don't spend any time in the stove area, seems like a lot of cash for a 'pretty' stove. The 30NC would be a much cheaper option, but maximum BTU (around 75K) might not be enough for you. If you want someone to go look at stoves with you, let me know - always fun to see a bunch of new ones!

Cheers,

Jacques

 

[NH_Wood]

Remi - by the way, what did the sweep cost you? Cheers!

 

[Kenster]

I am certain we could work something out if you want it Battenkiller. Otherwise, it would probably be going to the scrap yard.

Oh, what a waste, Remmy. Hate to see that great stove in the trash. Too far away or I'd fetch it. My little sister and her husband have a little vacation cabin in the mountains of Colorado. They have a little bitty wood stove that requires getting up every couple of hours all night long to feed the stove. I'd love to find a Viglilant for them.

Couldn't you just install a new liner for your chimney that would work well with the Vigilant?

 

[cmonSTART]

Have BB post some pictures of his smoker. The old Vig will make a great one!

 

[remkel]

I am certain we could work something out if you want it Battenkiller. Otherwise, it would probably be going to the scrap yard.

Oh, what a waste, Remmy. Hate to see that great stove in the trash. Too far away or I'd fetch it. My little sister and her husband have a little vacation cabin in the mountains of Colorado. They have a little bitty wood stove that requires getting up every couple of hours all night long to feed the stove. I'd love to find a Viglilant for them.

Couldn't you just install a new liner for your chimney that would work well with the Vigilant?

The person who takes it (at a negotiated price of course) is going to have to be a bit crafty. It needs a new fireback and left front door.
As I have posted in the past, there is a lot of sentimental value to the stove (my Pepere's) but I was talking with my father in the sugar shack (now that is a fire I can really get down with!) today and he stated "hey, do what you want with it" so I guess I have the ok.

Would love to find it a good home, but after what I saw yesterday, I am in the market for something new.

 

[remkel]

Remi!

Bummer buddy! At least it's not early January! Any chance you can move the stove to the first level when you begin to plan for a new stove? Do you need to keep the stove in the basement? I'm wondering if you can tap into the chimney from you main living area - seems like a better option, but perhaps not possible. The F600 was my second choice - beautiful stove. Is you basement finished? If you don't spend any time in the stove area, seems like a lot of cash for a 'pretty' stove. The 30NC would be a much cheaper option, but maximum BTU (around 75K) might not be enough for you. If you want someone to go look at stoves with you, let me know - always fun to see a bunch of new ones!

Cheers,

Jacques

For ease of use (me) and cleanliness (wife) we are going to keep the stove in the basement.

I like the Jotul for a couple of reasons:
1- Heat output
2- Glass front- I would love to be able to just take a stroll down the stairs and to be able to look across the darkened basement to see how the stove is performing. Who knows, I may just put a recliner down there and scour hearth.com from the peace and quiet of the basement.

If I were to put something upstairs, i would have to line the fireplace flue and the family loves to have an occasional fire in the fireplace to roast marshmellows. Plus, I like the look of the fireplace.

As for the shopping, you are more than welcome to join me anytime. Probably will really start the search in late spring or so.

 

[remkel]

I am certain we could work something out if you want it Battenkiller. Otherwise, it would probably be going to the scrap yard.

Oh, what a waste, Remmy. Hate to see that great stove in the trash. Too far away or I'd fetch it. My little sister and her husband have a little vacation cabin in the mountains of Colorado. They have a little bitty wood stove that requires getting up every couple of hours all night long to feed the stove. I'd love to find a Viglilant for them.

Couldn't you just install a new liner for your chimney that would work well with the Vigilant?

It is going to be really hard to part with the stove for sentimental reasons (it was my Pepere's) but after seeing what I saw I have decided to go with some new technology. The one positive from the experience is that I am about a cord and a half ahead for next year!

 

[firefighterjake]

I'll pull some stills from the video tomorrow when I download my cameras. It was fairly impressive.

Those are words that you never want to hear from a chimney sweep. . . .

 

[webbie]

It is almost impossible for a tile lined chimney in a colder climate NOT to have 1/8" or more of glaze...when using an older stove.
There are few solutions, although some claim that regular use the anti-creosote stuff will turn the glaze to a more brushable forum - but that is over a long time period.

Even never stoves can build up glaze (tar), but what tends to happen is because the chimneys are usually ss lined, it lights and burns off before it gets way overboard. In a cold tile chimney, it is difficult for it to hit those high temps...and if it did after building up that far, you'd want to watch out! It's quite concentrated stuff.

It would be neat someday if a sweep could get ahold of a pound of good tar and have it sent to a lab for testing as to what the properties were...in terms of weight and BTU. This would let us estimate the power of a certain coating..should it ignite. It would be easy to do the calcs just knowing the size of the flue tiles and height of the chimney.

It's an entirely different rant, but I think the standard tile and masonry chimney of today should be against all codes. It's not sufficient. We need engineered products like isokern if masonry and HHT chimneys or liners if not.

 

[oldspark]

It is almost impossible for a tile lined chimney in a colder climate NOT to have 1/8" or more of glaze...when using an older stove.
There are few solutions, although some claim that regular use the anti-creosote stuff will turn the glaze to a more brushable forum - but that is over a long time period.

Even never stoves can build up glaze (tar), but what tends to happen is because the chimneys are usually ss lined, it lights and burns off before it gets way overboard. In a cold tile chimney, it is difficult for it to hit those high temps...and if it did after building up that far, you'd want to watch out! It's quite concentrated stuff.

It would be neat someday if a sweep could get ahold of a pound of good tar and have it sent to a lab for testing as to what the properties were...in terms of weight and BTU. This would let us estimate the power of a certain coating..should it ignite. It would be easy to do the calcs just knowing the size of the flue tiles and height of the chimney.

It's an entirely different rant, but I think the standard tile and masonry chimney of today should be against all codes. It's not sufficient. We need engineered products like isokern if masonry and HHT chimneys or liners if not.

I assume you are talking about an exterior chimney!

 

[webbie]

Yeah, most are...at least around here and back in NJ/PA where I lived.......

A properly sized interior masonry will likely not build up much gunk, BUT - that does not solve the basic problems of flue tiles cracking, etc....just from settling, expansion....

Last time I went to the masonry yard for flue tiles I had to look hard to find some that were not cracked.....brand new! That shakes my confidence in them.....

I'm very anti-square flue tiles. If I had to build a masonry chimney, I would use round ones and shop around for the best maker of them......

 

[remkel]

It is almost impossible for a tile lined chimney in a colder climate NOT to have 1/8" or more of glaze...when using an older stove.
There are few solutions, although some claim that regular use the anti-creosote stuff will turn the glaze to a more brushable forum - but that is over a long time period.

Even never stoves can build up glaze (tar), but what tends to happen is because the chimneys are usually ss lined, it lights and burns off before it gets way overboard. In a cold tile chimney, it is difficult for it to hit those high temps...and if it did after building up that far, you'd want to watch out! It's quite concentrated stuff.

It would be neat someday if a sweep could get ahold of a pound of good tar and have it sent to a lab for testing as to what the properties were...in terms of weight and BTU. This would let us estimate the power of a certain coating..should it ignite. It would be easy to do the calcs just knowing the size of the flue tiles and height of the chimney.

It's an entirely different rant, but I think the standard tile and masonry chimney of today should be against all codes. It's not sufficient. We need engineered products like isokern if masonry and HHT chimneys or liners if not.

I assume you are talking about an exterior chimney!

Yes, exterior chimney approximately 30-33' feet.

I may have some of the creosote left in the cleanout. I might try to get some out and light it in the fire pit out back. Would be an interesting experiment (and a fun way to spend an afternoon).

 

[remkel]

It is almost impossible for a tile lined chimney in a colder climate NOT to have 1/8" or more of glaze...when using an older stove.
There are few solutions, although some claim that regular use the anti-creosote stuff will turn the glaze to a more brushable forum - but that is over a long time period.

Even never stoves can build up glaze (tar), but what tends to happen is because the chimneys are usually ss lined, it lights and burns off before it gets way overboard. In a cold tile chimney, it is difficult for it to hit those high temps...and if it did after building up that far, you'd want to watch out! It's quite concentrated stuff.

It would be neat someday if a sweep could get ahold of a pound of good tar and have it sent to a lab for testing as to what the properties were...in terms of weight and BTU. This would let us estimate the power of a certain coating..should it ignite. It would be easy to do the calcs just knowing the size of the flue tiles and height of the chimney.

It's an entirely different rant, but I think the standard tile and masonry chimney of today should be against all codes. It's not sufficient. We need engineered products like isokern if masonry and HHT chimneys or liners if not.

My estimates put the glaze in the "or more" category.

 

[remkel]

I'll pull some stills from the video tomorrow when I download my cameras. It was fairly impressive.

Those are words that you never want to hear from a chimney sweep. . . .

And the images on the screen during the chimney scan shall haunt me for the rest of my days.....