Early 1900s fireplace restoration...why is there a big wooden box under the hearth???

[ftbhomes]

Early 1900s farmhouse this is my first fireplace chimney restoration. The Chimney and Hearth were completely covered up with plywood and mortar, buried into the wall. After digging out the mortar and plywood I have located a huge hole where the Hearth would be filled with dirt on top of a wooden box. It doesn't appear to be ash, it is pure dirt that they actually hauled into the house, and then put makeshift boards over it and lay carpet on top of it. Why on earth would they do this? Why all the dirt?? Whoever covered both chimneys in this house up did this house a disservice, and my wife and I are trying to restore it to its former glory. We will more than likely put an insert in, but we think this should be the centerpiece of the house. Any advice or experience is more than welcome

 

[bholler]

Early 1900s farmhouse this is my first fireplace chimney restoration. The Chimney and Hearth were completely covered up with plywood and mortar, buried into the wall. After digging out the mortar and plywood I have located a huge hole where the Hearth would be filled with dirt on top of a wooden box. It doesn't appear to be ash, it is pure dirt that they actually hauled into the house, and then put makeshift boards over it and lay carpet on top of it. Why on earth would they do this? Why all the dirt?? Whoever covered both chimneysView attachment 225291 in this house up did this house a disservice, and my wife and I are trying to restore it to its former glory. We will more than likely put an insert in, but we think this should be the centerpiece of the house. Any advice or View attachment 225289 experience is more than welcome

That was a pretty common way to do a hearth extension. The box was usually filled with sand or dirt and then brick layed over that. To do it to code you need to build either noncombustible forms or make it so the wood forms can be pulled after you pour. Then you need to pour a slab with rebar in it. In your case you will have to pour a slab under the actual hearth also because there probably is no slab there to tie into.

 

[bholler]

Also your firebox looks to shallow for an insert but i may be wrong how deep is it?

 

[Kevin Weis]

This may have ben a way for the hearth to be insulated from the ground so when heated the warmth was not conducted away and more of it was radiated into the room. Just a thought though. What's under the box/boards? Kevin

 

[ftbhomes]

That was a pretty common way to do a hearth extension. The box was usually filled with sand or dirt and then brick layed over that. To do it to code you need to build either noncombustible forms or make it so the wood forms can be pulled after you pour. Then you need to pour a slab with rebar in it. In your case you will have to pour a slab under the actual hearth also because there probably is no slab there to tie into.

Thank you so much for your time. You are correct. I guess they just didn't have concrete back in the early 1900s, unless the previous owners tore something up. They did a lot of damage heartbreaking devastating damage to these beautiful chimneys and fireplaces, just trying to cover them up. Can't understand for the life of me as to why. Thank you so much for your time

 

[armanidog]

My house was built in 1906. All 4 of my fireplaces had a wooden shelf, all were 90% rotted away. Then there was a layer of creek stones and then sand. The mortar was poured to make a slab and then the bricks for the hearth.
Use concrete blocks to make a form, fill it with gravel, tamp it down, and pour a 4 inch slab on top. Then lay your bricks.
I think it was done because they didn't know any better, less labor involved, and there were no building codes.

Edit: My fireplace was too low and shallow, so I put in a freestanding wood stove with the stove pipe running into the chimney just above the lintel. Then it connects to a tee piece at the bottom of my SS liner.

 

[ftbhomes]

LOL it sounds like mine and yours was done by the same guy. That sounds exactly how mine is built. Thank you for the information. I would love to see how yours turned out. This is my first experience and I call it my Picasso LOL, because I'm having to hand chisel out all of the rotted stuff as you say. Thank you

 

[ftbhomes]

Also your firebox looks to shallow for an insert but i may be wrong how deep is it?

I thought it looks somewhat shallow as well. It's 3 brick rows deep. About 13.5 inches to the first layer. If I blow that first layer that's crumbling I have over 18 inches. 2 foot if I dig out to the3rd layer. We are hoping and insert with stainless steel ducting. We've also got to restore the top of the chimneys where they chopped them off. They really did some devastating damage but we're trying our hearts out

 

[ftbhomes]

This may have ben a way for the hearth to be insulated from the ground so when heated the warmth was not conducted away and more of it was radiated into the room. Just a thought though. What's under the box/boards? Kevin

We were hoping for some buried treasure but it looks like it's just the ground under the house LOL. A very small crawl space. These loose boards were just laying there not even secured. The whole house is built with square nails they didn't even secure these with any

 

[bholler]

My house was built in 1906. All 4 of my fireplaces had a wooden shelf, all were 90% rotted away. Then there was a layer of creek stones and then sand. The mortar was poured to make a slab and then the bricks for the hearth.
Use concrete blocks to make a form, fill it with gravel, tamp it down, and pour a 4 inch slab on top. Then lay your bricks.
I think it was done because they didn't know any better, less labor involved, and there were no building codes.

Edit: My fireplace was too low and shallow, so I put in a freestanding wood stove with the stove pipe running into the chimney just above the lintel. Then it connects to a tee piece at the bottom of my SS liner.

Block will work fine if there isnt a full basement under it. If there is a full basement building block up would be allot of work

 

[ftbhomes]

Block will work fine if there isnt a full basement under it. If there is a full basement building block up would be allot of work

No basement. And these antique houses have barely any crawl space either. I guess they had zero codes back then. I now I go get some blocks.

 

[bholler]

No basement. And these antique houses have barely any crawl space either. I guess they had zero codes back then. I now I go get some blocks.

Here all houses have basements. Even our first one where the original log cabin that was part of the house still was 275 yrs old. But yeah if you are that close to grade just pour some footers and build up from there.

 

[Ashful]

Here all houses have basements. Even our first one where the original log cabin that was part of the house still was 275 yrs old. But yeah if you are that close to grade just pour some footers and build up from there.

Almost makes you wonder why they even used the sandbox approach on this house, 100 years ago.

I’m used to seeing those hearth extensions, as well, but usually as a later addition to much older (18th century) houses.

 

[ftbhomes]

Well we're not actually certain on the year of the house. Our County archives Department said the 1907 is a guesstimation, they're not certain on the year even at the county department, but by the looks of things, the square nails, the skeleton keys, the rough cut lumber, all tongue and groove lumber, and now a dirt hearth, makes me think it may have been the latter of the 18th century. We love trying to research the history of this old place, but no one around here can tell us much of anything. We went and got the blocks tonight but I think I'm done for the day. I may go ahead and run a gas and electric line while I have it all open. Can't thank you guys enough for all the input. A really helpful forum thank you so much

 

[bholler]

Well we're not actually certain on the year of the house. Our County archives Department said the 1907 is a guesstimation, they're not certain on the year even at the county department, but by the looks of things, the square nails, the skeleton keys, the rough cut lumber, all tongue and groove lumber, and now a dirt hearth, makes me think it may have been the latter of the 18th century. We love trying to research the history of this old place, but no one around here can tell us much of anything. We went and got the blocks tonight but I think I'm done for the day. I may go ahead and run a gas and electric line while I have it all open. Can't thank you guys enough for all the input. A really helpful forum thank you so much

Our 1920s house had cut nails and tongue and groove sheathing to but it was all clearly cut on a circular saw mill. It but it also had wire nails used as well. But there are lots of early 20th century houses that use cut nails. And most 19th century houses do. I can tell you without a doubt if the house is late 18th century that fireplace is a later addition.

 

[ftbhomes]

As I said before not sure the courthouse has it 1907. But I can assure you the fireplace was not added on later. There are four fireplaces in this house all of them buried in the walls. Thank you for all the input

 

[bholler]

As I said before not sure the courthouse has it 1907. But I can assure you the fireplace was not added on later. There are four fireplaces in this house all of them buried in the walls. Thank you for all the input

Ok but you said you thought it was late 18th century. And that is not an 18th century fireplace. It looks like late 19th or early 20th fireplace design and brick type.

 

[Ashful]

Guys, "18th century" would be the 1700's. As we are in the 21st century, now.

If it were 18th century, you wouldn't have cut nails. They hadn't been invented, yet. Those were the days of hand-wrought nails, when they actually cost their name, eg. 6 penny nails = sixpence per 100.

 

[bholler]

Guys, "18th century" would be the 1700's. As we are in the 21st century, now.

If it were 18th century, you wouldn't have cut nails. They hadn't been invented, yet. Those were the days of hand-wrought nails, when they actually cost their name, eg. 6 penny nails = sixpence per 100.

Yes i am aware of that

 

[Ashful]

Yes i am aware of that

Yeah, was directed at another post, above.

As I said before not sure the courthouse has it 1907. But I can assure you the fireplace was not added on later. There are four fireplaces in this house all of them buried in the walls. Thank you for all the input

Didn’t mean to imply the fireplace was added later, just the hearth extension. The guy sitting two offices over from me now has a 1750’s house, with those extensions in front of every fireplace. The fireplaces are 260 years old, but those exensions are maybe only 100 - 150 years old. They were added later.

BTW, courthouse records can be way off, sometimes. My house was built in the 1770’s, atop the walls of an earlier house that has been here since 1738. The county records show it as being built in the late 1800’s, more than 100 years off the mark. There are two more examples of houses in my family, that I can remember right off the top of my head, where the county records are at least 100 years off. It seems to happen any time the date of the house pre-dates the incorporation of the township or county.

If you’re interested, there are some pretty quick ways of narrowing down the date of a house. Always easier, if no one has mucked with the doors and windows. Henry Mercer published a small booklet that can be of enormous help, particularly when you get back into the 18th century stuff.

 

[bholler]

Yeah, was directed at another post, above.


Didn’t mean to imply the fireplace was added later, just the hearth extension. The guy sitting two offices over from me now has a 1750’s house, with those extensions in front of every fireplace. The fireplaces are 260 years old, but those exensions are maybe only 100 - 150 years old. They were added later.

BTW, courthouse records can be way off, sometimes. My house was built in the 1770’s, atop the walls of an earlier house that has been here since 1738. The county records show it as being built in the late 1800’s, more than 100 years off the mark. There are two more examples of houses in my family, that I can remember right off the top of my head, where the county records are at least 100 years off. It seems to happen any time the date of the house pre-dates the incorporation of the township or county.

If you’re interested, there are some pretty quick ways of narrowing down the date of a house. Always easier, if no one has mucked with the doors and windows. Henry Mercer published a small booklet that can be of enormous help, particularly when you get back into the 18th century stuff.

I implied that if the house was an 18th century house like he said that fireplace was not origonal because neither the design nor the brick is right for that time period. But i am pretty sure he is referring to the 1800s as 18th century.