Energy king - 365EK insights

[Ncon]

Looking for any insight anyone can offer. I'm looking into an indoor wood furnace force hot air. Came across a second hand energy king 365ek locally at a good price.
Does anyone have any feedback on these?
Looking at replacing a Harman pf100.
Harman is struggling to keep up with heat demand and burnt about 8/9 tons of pellets this season, also have a enviro mini that obviously accounts for a few of those tons.

 

[brenndatomu]

Calling @yooperdave

 

[sloeffle]

I looked at one, and then decided a PSG Caddy was a better option. Wasn't a big fan of the EK because it looked like an all day job just to clean the HX tubes out. The PSG was also EPA certified and the EK was not.

If it's a good deal, and it's in good shape I'd think it would better than spending thousands of dollars a year on pellets. One thing to remember with a wood furnace, you aren't going to get consistent heat out of it like you would a pellet or fossil fuel furnace.

 

[Ncon]

Thanks for input. I do think I'm going to go with the Drolet heat commander also. In looking at the tax credit and unknown from the old furnace.
Where is the cheapest place to source one?

 

[brenndatomu]

I do think I'm going to go with the Drolet heat commander also

Generally MFP is hard to beat (unless you find some random store with an exceptional sale) its basically the SBI factory store...shipping is included too. https://www.myfireplaceproducts.com/us/en/heaters/wood-furnaces/df02003/
If you are looking at new...consider a Kuuma VF100...its more money, but you'll find none finer, and they have a spring sale/tax rebates on too. http://www.lamppakuuma.com/

 

[yooperdave]

@Ncon I used to have an energy king 480. Built like a tank! But, it sure did like firewood. It was in a house I bought and in very good shape after 12 (?) years of use. The original owner had purchased a set of spare grates but the ones that came with the furnace had nothing wrong with them.

I could not get an overnight burn with the unit; it seems that right around 6 hours was the max burn time for me. I even went so far as just about shutting the air inlet down completely and dampening off the motorized fresh air intake. I cleaned the chimney 3 times that season as I remember it.

I bought a Kuuma Vapor Fire 100 and am completely satisfied with it. It uses much less firewood, burns cleaner and I now have no problems with attaining an overnight burn. With the energy king, there was always a foul ash smell whenever outside due to the burn being closed down I suppose. With the vapor fire, the smell outside from the fire is actually pleasant and appealing. Usually prevalent on startup of a fire. Not a game changer I'm sure, but who the heck wants to smell that offensive exhaust........even if it is just while you walk to the garage or shoveling snow!

If you have any questions about the energy king, let me know.

 

[JRHAWK9]

With the vapor fire, the smell outside from the fire is actually pleasant and appealing.

Funny you say that. I absolutely LOVE the clean burn smell of a Kuuma burning oak.

 

[brenndatomu]

Funny you say that. I absolutely LOVE the clean burn smell of a Kuuma burning oak.

Not just oak...I personally find the odor of most types of wood burnt in a Kuuma to be appealing...to me it just has this lightly roasted wood smell to it...kinda hard to describe exactly IMO...

 

[Ncon]

Thanks for the response @yooperdave
Definitely looking for more than a 6hr burn time. That was the best difference with installing a newer EPA wood stove instead of the old smoke dragon Vermont casting that was in the house when I bought it.
I think the heat commander will fit my needs and budget much better.

 

[brenndatomu]

I think the heat commander will fit my needs and budget much better.

Not saying there is anything really wrong with the HC, but read the fine print on the warranty closely...SBI had to warranty a metric crap ton of a previous generation of their wood furnaces...now the warranty reads differently.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Not saying there is anything really wrong with the HC, but read the fine print on the warranty closely...SBI had to warranty a metric crap ton of a previous generation of their wood furnaces...now the warranty reads differently.

yeah, my thought was there is short term budget vs long term. I'm guessing he was thinking short term.

 

[Ncon]

Not saying there is anything really wrong with the HC, but read the fine print on the warranty closely...SBI had to warranty a metric crap ton of a previous generation of their wood furnaces...now the warranty reads differently.

What is the alternative then?
The caddy?
Kuuma is above my price range unfortunately

 

[brenndatomu]

What is the alternative then?
The caddy?
Kuuma is above my price range unfortunately

The Caddy...maybe...but not sure that materials and/or warranty is much different?
Is the Kuuma totally and completely out of your price range?
Between the sale price, the tax credit, and the finance option they offer now, it is totally worth stretching the budget a lil for...and believe me, I tried everything under the sun before finally ponying up for the Kuuma (although I did find, well, Lamppa told me about, an almost new used one, which saved a lil bit...this was before the tax credit was around...but I haven't seen any used ones pop up for a couple years now, and with the stainless firebox upgrades they made a couple years ago, I think stretching for a new one is worth it)

 

[JRHAWK9]

Keep in mind bren is the only one on this site who has had the opportunity to run both the Heat Commander and Vapor Fire for considerable amounts of time back to back in the same house with the same seasoned wood. IIRC, it was purchased for his sister but he wanted to spend some time with it getting to know how to operate it before handing it off to his sister so he could then show/teach her. He very easily could have, and probably would have, kept the HC if he would have preferred it. So his recommendation is more than just an opinion, he has real world experiences operating both.

 

[Ncon]

Thanks I appreciate the responses.
I did find a vapor fire 200 second hand reasonably close. Not sure of the comparison?
I have reached out to kuuma for details on financing etc...
After tax credit HC will come in at around $3k with the kuuma coming in around $6k so it is a considerably jump.

 

[JRHAWK9]

After tax credit HC will come in at around $3k with the kuuma coming in around $6k so it is a considerably jump.

I can completely understand, that is a considerable jump. Keep in mind the Kuuma's firebox is stainless so it's serviceable life is going to be much longer. This is just a WAG on my part, but I'm thinking the HC's lifespan would be in the 10 +/- year area, based on the similar firebox design of SBI's previous furnaces and the rust issues they have had. I could be completely wrong though, it's just a guestimate. If you are older or if you plan on moving in the not so distant future, then going the cheaper route may suit you better.

I did find a vapor fire 200 second hand reasonably close. Not sure of the comparison?

It's a smaller firebox and less heating capacity. It all depends on your climate on heat load on if it would work for you. Personally, I'd want the newer SS VF100.

 

[salecker]

If you plan on keeping your house for an extended amount of time the extra cost isn't very much when you divide it by 10 years.
Piece of mind, a better working furnace, plus longevity is worth something

 

[brenndatomu]

This is just a WAG on my part, but I'm thinking the HC's lifespan would be in the 10 +/- year area, based on the similar firebox design of SBI's previous furnaces and the rust issues they have had.

That would be best case scenario IMO...there were some Tundras gone after 2 seasons IIRC.

I did find a vapor fire 200 second hand reasonably close. Not sure of the comparison?

How big is your place?
The VF200 is a decent lil machine, a VF200 was my first taste of a Kuuma...they make a lil less heat than the larger 100, and the firebox is smaller, so the burn time is less per load. I could probably get by with one most of the time here (with our wuss winters anymore) but they take 16" wood, and I had about 4-5 years worth of wood already cut to 20-22" so I started looking for a 100, but the one I got is a '14 or '15 model (CRS!) so not the all SS firebox, like now.

 

[Ncon]

I'm in Vermont and have a 2500 sq ft house. I've been making lots of improvements to it but it's definitely not the best insulation and air tight wise. Way better then when I got it.
I will either be selling it converting to a rental in the next 5yrs.
Another consideration for going with a cheaper option. I think if I was going to be in the house 10+yrs I would definitely go with a new vapor fire.

 

[brenndatomu]

I'm in Vermont and have a 2500 sq ft house. I've been making lots of improvements to it but it's definitely not the best insulation and air tight wise. Way better then when I got it.
I will either be selling it converting to a rental in the next 5yrs.
Another consideration for going with a cheaper option. I think if I was going to be in the house 10+yrs I would definitely go with a new vapor fire.

At 2500 ft w/ marginal insulation/air sealing a VF200 would take the edge off for sure, but probably not handle things on its own when it gets colder. (I'd grab it if the price is right though, they are easy to flip!)
If you are converting it to a rental do you really want wood heat for renters to use? If not then you may want to take your wood heater with you (hope it's a walk out basement) and at that point (IMO) you'd be back to "buy once cry once"...the first winter that I had my VF100 I had it installed as an "add-on" furnace because I didn't have time to get everything swapped around the way I wanted things to be eventually, whick is the VF is ducted as the main furnace, and the oil furnace in parallel with it...it (and several others) worked fine as an "add-on" and made it easy to switch things around if needed (and as mentioned earlier, I did swap things around a few times!)

 

[brenndatomu]

Not saying there is anything really wrong with the HC, but read the fine print on the warranty closely...SBI had to warranty a metric crap ton of a previous generation of their wood furnaces...now the warranty reads differently.

Installed 2019

Drolet heat pack

My secondary air inlet seems to have rusted out. Anyone have this problem and have any advice what todo to fix it?

www.hearth.com

 

[Ncon]

Agree with the wood burning if I'm going to go to rental wouldn't be ideal.
The vapor fire 200 is for sale for $1900
Not sure how that is on price?
Not sure how old it is either. I was trying to read up on specs and what I found said it's for up to 3000sqft house but I think that is for the newest ones.
Only problem with 200 option is lower burn times and smaller fire box.
Anyone have experience with the VF200?

 

[brenndatomu]

The vapor fire 200 is for sale for $1900
Not sure how that is on price?

That's a good price if its in decent shape. I would guess that once (if/when) they release the new VF200 it will be $6k plus.
If the seller will give you the serial number Lamppa can tell you the age.
I ran a 200 for a season.

 

[Ncon]

That's a good price if its in decent shape. I would guess that once (if/when) they release the new VF200 it will be $6k plus.
If the seller will give you the serial number Lamppa can tell you the age.
I ran a 200 for a season.

Yeah it's hard to tell the age. I was looking at the images of it and what's on the website and they were slightly different.

 

[brenndatomu]

Yeah it's hard to tell the age. I was looking at the images of it and what's on the website and they were slightly different.

I found the ad...if they will send you a close up pic of the decal/sticker back there on the side of the blower housing/box, there's a number on the top that starts with PFS, that's the number Lamppa will need to tell you the age...but that is a 15+ year old machine in my opinion.
It doesn't appear to be in terrible shape though, from what can be seen in pics...and assuming that its in good shape inside too, that's not a bad price...I flipped a couple of them for in the mid to upper $2k range (after I went through them) back in the 2017 time frame...and things have went WAY up since then!
The VF200 does look a lil different than the VF100 (especially the current model) it doesn't use a plenum, and the blower box is much smaller.
If the seller would be willing to send you pics of the inside of the firebox, that will tell you a lot about its condition, specifically the lower front part of the box, basically the inside of the part right below the loading door...and also the upper part of the firebox too (the gasification chamber/outlet area)