Englander 13-NCH or 30-NCH?

[kavu]

Hi All!

I am looking for some advice on which size stove to go with. I have been looking at the Englander 13-NCH which is rated for 1800 sqft or the 30-NCH which is rated for 2400 sqft.

13-NCH
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Englander-1-800-sq-ft-Wood-Burning-Stove-13-NCH/100157775

30-NCH
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Englander-2-400-sq-ft-Wood-Burning-Stove-30-NCH/100291302

The stove will be in a room with approximately 700 sq ft and there is another room with an open doorway that the heat will travel into but not be used to really heat. That room is approximately 400 sqft. I may convert my garage into livable space which will add another possible 400-500 sqft but not anytime soon.

I am wondering how accurate the 1800 sqft specification is for the 13-NCH. If its true to 1800 sqft then I think I would be fine with that stove but not sure if it is thus I am turning to the knowledgable community here for some advice.

My current stove is a very old timberline stove that came with the house when I bought it 10 years ago. Same as the one from this old thread.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/timberline-wood-stove.101525/

Seems like it was from the 80's, its very big and old. I believe its pre-epa as people have called it on this forum. We have to run fires very low and slow to keep the house(really the room I stated above) from being 90+. If we were to run it full out at 600+ degrees, it would easily hit 90 in a short period and burn through wood like crazy. It seems as though it was made to heat the whole house, not just the immediate room it was in.

I would like to upgrade so that I can use less wood and have longer burns. Right now the stove pretty much has to be baby sat all the time. I would like to load it, get it going and hopefully leave it for 7+ hours. It seems like that is the norm for most stoves today that are either cat or not "pre-epa". The price difference between the two stoves is not a factor. I also have decided that I do not want a cat stove from what I have read on here.

Which size do you suggest? Any help is greatly appreciated and thanks in advance.

 

[BrotherBart]

To run the 30 efficiently it will run you out of the joint if the place isn't leaky and not insulated. I heat this 2,500 sq, ft, barn with one half in a fireplace. And it gets pretty darn hot down stairs before I go to bed with it cranking at 550-600 degrees to heat the upstairs overnight.

Member @Dix has a 13 and can advise as to its heating capability in a smaller space..

 

[Dix]

*trots in*

My 13 is in an accessory apt, that's about 600 SF. Love it to death, it's an awesome heater, but average burn time is 4 - 5 hours max. If you are looking for longer burn times, then you are going to need a bigger fire box. You can build a smaller fire in a big box, but not a bigger fire in a small box.

I will also say that I have had to push the 13 to throw heat to all 2000 SF of this house, and it did it with in reason on a 30 F degree day. The PE went down for about 2 hours for a cleaning. I doubt it could maintain the whole place in lower temps.

 

[kennyp2339]

Go with the 30 and never look back

 

[HeatinPA]

If you have the physical space for a 30, get it. I did not, so I went with the 13.

 

[sportbikerider78]

The good news with the 30...you could build a big fire, cut the airs, come back in 10 hrs to a warm house. It might get hot while you're gone, but who cares?

 

[NewburnerID]

Also check out the hearth R-Value and distance requirements of the Englanders. I just finished building a hearth for my 30 with a 1.5 R-Value req. Good thing I wanted a raised hearth!

 

[kavu]

To run the 30 efficiently it will run you out of the joint if the place isn't leaky and not insulated. I heat this 2,500 sq, ft, barn with one half in a fireplace. And it gets pretty darn hot down stairs before I go to bed with it cranking at 550-600 degrees to heat the upstairs overnight.

Member @Dix has a 13 and can advise as to its heating capability in a smaller space..

Thanks, that was a concern of mine with the 30. I would like to run it efficiently without having to clear the room.

*trots in*

My 13 is in an accessory apt, that's about 600 SF. Love it to death, it's an awesome heater, but average burn time is 4 - 5 hours max. If you are looking for longer burn times, then you are going to need a bigger fire box. You can build a smaller fire in a big box, but not a bigger fire in a small box.

I will also say that I have had to push the 13 to throw heat to all 2000 SF of this house, and it did it with in reason on a 30 F degree day. The PE went down for about 2 hours for a cleaning. I doubt it could maintain the whole place in lower temps.

Thank you for all the info. Do you think that the 13 can handle heating say 1200 sqft even on a cold single digit day(though its rare for LI)? I noticed that you are also on Long Island so we have the same weather to compare. This winter was a warm one but I think our standard would be teens in the winter. I am ok with a 4-5 hour burn time versus a 7+ hour burn time that the 30 can get. Thanks again.

 

[kavu]

If you have the physical space for a 30, get it. I did not, so I went with the 13.

Do you feel the 13 has any issues that the 30 doesn't?

 

[begreen]

Englander also makes an in-between sized Madison (50 SSW01) that has easier hearth and clearance requirements.

 

[kavu]

The good news with the 30...you could build a big fire, cut the airs, come back in 10 hrs to a warm house. It might get hot while you're gone, but who cares?

This is kind of like how my current stove works, was hoping that the newer type stoves with the reburn, it would be a more even type of heat output, not just great heat at first.

 

[kavu]

Also check out the hearth R-Value and distance requirements of the Englanders. I just finished building a hearth for my 30 with a 1.5 R-Value req. Good thing I wanted a raised hearth!

Thanks for the heads up, that is a very important one that one may overlook prior to buying the stove. I would have not known had I not seen some posts regarding it on this forum so I checked it out. I have a cement slab and slate on top of it without any type of combustable subfloor so I believe I am good. I plan on adding a layer of tile/stone on top of that before putting down the new stove as well.

 

[Dix]

My 13 is also on a cement slab, with a cinder block 1/2 wall behind it, so we added a cement raised hearth, and carried on.

Thank you for all the info. Do you think that the 13 can handle heating say 1200 sqft even on a cold single digit day(though its rare for LI)? I noticed that you are also on Long Island so we have the same weather to compare. This winter was a warm one but I think our standard would be teens in the winter. I am ok with a 4-5 hour burn time versus a 7+ hour burn time that the 30 can get. Thanks again.

Yes, I do. I don't know where you are, but I'm in Brookhaven Town, in an area known as Icy Hollow, where temps drop down colder than other areas. . 10 - 20 degrees colder. Kinda what you see on News 12 for the frigid Westhampton Pine Barrens temps.

If you have heat pipes, water pipes, etc that you are wanting to keep warm, I'd go with a bigger stove. I wish the Madison was around when I bought the 13, I'd have been all over it. The bigger fire box would be a plus.

That, AND decent, seasoned firewood.

 

[BrotherBart]

Yeah for long burn times the 30 is great. 250+ stove top 12 hours later with good wood all winter long. Every thing in the house soaks up the heat and releases it overnight. I load at nine and get up at nine. Just be ready to have a bunch of heat on your hands for a few hours.

 

[kavu]

My 13 is also on a cement slab, with a cinder block 1/2 wall behind it, so we added a cement raised hearth, and carried on.



Yes, I do. I don't know where you are, but I'm in Brookhaven Town, in an area known as Icy Hollow, where temps drop down colder than other areas. . 10 - 20 degrees colder. Kinda what you see on News 12 for the frigid Westhampton Pine Barrens temps.

If you have heat pipes, water pipes, etc that you are wanting to keep warm, I'd go with a bigger stove. I wish the Madison was around when I bought the 13, I'd have been all over it. The bigger fire box would be a plus.

That, AND decent, seasoned firewood.

Do you think you needed the hearth with the cement slab or more over kill? I don't think the specs require the hearth for the 13 with a cement slab but I could be wrong. I have a brick wall around the stove on 2 sides.

I am in Islip township so not near those colder area that you are in. I am looking into the madison now to see if its a viable alternative for me.

I think my main question now is that I obviously want to run the stove at the most efficient temp which is going to be hot for the stove. The 13 sounds right with it being 500-600 degrees to heat the area. The 30 at that same temperature will be similar to mine now and it will blow out the house if it runs for a prolonged period of time at that temp. I feel like if I get the 30, then I will have to run small fires to heat up the room instead of being able to pack it up and run it for say 4-5 or more hours on a single load. Is my thinking wrong here? Any help/info is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[kavu]

Yeah for long burn times the 30 is great. 250+ stove top 12 hours later with good wood all winter long. Every thing in the house soaks up the heat and releases it overnight. I load at nine and get up at nine. Just be ready to have a bunch of heat on your hands for a few hours.

I use gas heat for the rest of my house, just use the stove to take the chill out of the two rooms which is approximately 700 sqft. We like it on the warm side, 72-75. A 12 hour burn is nice

 

[kavu]

Englander also makes an in-between sized Madison (50 SSW01) that has easier hearth and clearance requirements.

Thanks, looking into this one as well.

 

[Dix]

Do you think you needed the hearth with the cement slab or more over kill? I don't think the specs require the hearth for the 13 with a cement slab but I could be wrong. I have a brick wall around the stove on 2 sides.

I am in Islip township so not near those colder area that you are in. I am looking into the madison now to see if its a viable alternative for me.

I think my main question now is that I obviously want to run the stove at the most efficient temp which is going to be hot for the stove. The 13 sounds right with it being 500-600 degrees to heat the area. The 30 at that same temperature will be similar to mine now and it will blow out the house if it runs for a prolonged period of time at that temp. I feel like if I get the 30, then I will have to run small fires to heat up the room instead of being able to pack it up and run it for say 4-5 or more hours on a single load. Is my thinking wrong here? Any help/info is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

We really didn't need the raised hearth, did it for looks and easier loading. Not so much of a "bend over" to fill the stove & clean it out as needed.

The 13 will burn for 4-5 and throw heat for about another hour. After that, because of the small firebox, the heat output drops quickly.

 

[kavu]

We really didn't need the raised hearth, did it for looks and easier loading. Not so much of a "bend over" to fill the stove & clean it out as needed.

The 13 will burn for 4-5 and throw heat for about another hour. After that, because of the small firebox, the heat output drops quickly.

Gotcha...thanks!

 

[Dix]

Gotcha...thanks!

AND, you will have a very small coal bed to re fire off of, if any. Better to have coals to re fire off of, in my opinion.

After being gone all day, it's usually always a cold restart from scratch.Longer heat up time, more attention needed.

When the Dixette was in the apartment, we worked different shifts, so it was easy to reload each stove in colder weather ( she went to bed at 2 AM, I got up at 6 Am, you get the drift), and it worked.

When she moved out.... what a witch to maintain both stoves going by myself.

 

[kavu]

AND, you will have a very small coal bed to re fire off of, if any. Better to have coals to re fire off of, in my opinion.

After being gone all day, it's usually always a cold restart from scratch.Longer heat up time, more attention needed.

When the Dixette was in the apartment, we worked different shifts, so it was easy to reload each stove in colder weather ( she went to bed at 2 AM, I got up at 6 Am, you get the drift), and it worked.

When she moved out.... what a witch to maintain both stoves going by myself.

That is a lot of work to maintain two stoves. Thanks for the info.

 

[reaperman]

Im not sure how cold it gets in your part of the world. But here in Minnesota, mother nature is in charge. I have a 13 in a (20x40) insulated pole building no foundation. Inside of the building is mainly open (20x32 or 640sq ft) where the wood stove is. Then a wall dividing the remaining 8x20' or 160sq ft. On cold nights I supplement the in-floor heat system with wood. Two reasons, first is my in floor heat boiler is off peak electric. Meaning the power company can and do shut me off daily at peak times. The second reason is if I ever loose power I can heat the building forever with wood. I cant say enough about the heating ability of the 13. At times when the outside temps are in the -20's F, this little stove has no trouble keeping the building 70 degrees. The firebox is smallish, but once you learn the stove, you come more proficient in operating it. For instance, it doesn't take that much wood to throw good heat. A lot of times one log giving secondary flames will last a long time with stove top temps in the 350-450 range. When that log dies down a bit and before the stove cools too much. Just throw on one more log, no need to fill it to the max, unless your preparing for a overnight burn. At one point I was looking for a blower fan to add. Just because I had a blower on a previous wood stove, no other reason. Instead I put a fan behind the 13 to circulate the heat. But soon found the fan cooled the stove too much. Then I learned that by blowing a fan from way across the room (30 feet away) directly at the 13, the heat circulated much better without cooling the wood stove at all. Another thing is leaving a couple of inches of ashes on the bottom the stove. This insulates the coals and you will find that by raking the ashes around a bit will produce enough coals to start a fire if it does die out. When I do start a fire, I use one of those fire-logs they sell just about everywhere. I buy the big/heavy one. Then simply cut a few small pieces off of it to start a fire, this works well. Otherwise I use diesel fuel if I don't have a log handy. I know the 13 would heat my house if I didn't have a basement. In fact, I'm keeping my eyes open for one and if I can convince the war dept (wife) to let me install a stove upstairs it will be a 13. When I build my home she didn't want the wood mess in our living area. So the compromise was a wood furnace in the basement. Yes, the furnace heats the house evenly, but it eats wood too. Where a small stove upstairs would be nice is in the spring/fall when a lot of heat is needed 24/7. Sorry for the long post, your heating space mimics mine. The 13 would do you well.

 

[Sagitta]

As a FWIW the Madison is on sale at Lowes for $600. We went back and picked up a refund on ours for the difference since it went on sale the day after we purchased it. I'm currently in the middle of my first full burn on it and loving it's performance. It's currently 1 degree here in Maine and this things drawing up the temps in our drafty 1400 foot 2 story.

Edit: they call it a Summers Heat 2,000 but it's the same stove.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Summers-Heat-2-000-sq-ft-Wood-Stove/999918844

 

[begreen]

That is a steal of a deal. Get them while they're hot.

 

[Dix]

That's an awesome deal !