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Englander 25-PDV Control Panel testing? - Feed rates for heat ranges?

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Don2222, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
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    Salem NH
    Hello

    Well I did the hard reset and connected a T-Stat. What is the top auger duration or lbs/hr for each heat level from 1 - 9 ?

    Main Question is:
    How can I tell if the Control Board is setting the heat levels correctly?

    Running the diagnostics does not step thru each heat level showing the Top Auger Duration? Maybe it should?

    I did get F - 5 in the display when I did the hard reset below.
    I went thru the T-Stat Test and it worked fine using a Digital Lux Non-Programmable DMH-110
    http://www.englanderstoves.com/manuals/TstatTest_AutoIgnitePelletUnits.pdf
    I also put the stove in Diagnostics Mode and all of those tests passed.
    http://www.englanderstoves.com/help/PelletStove/diagnostic_mode04.html

    25-PDV Control Board Hard Reset


    Perform a hard control board reset.

    1. Shut off stove, and allow to cool off completely.
    2. Unplug stove, and after a few seconds plug back in....within 3-4 seconds, press all 3 bottom buttons at the same time, and let go.
    3. "F-5" should appear in the display. Allow the display to go blank.
    4. Re-start stove.

    If this does not show F-5 readout call Englander Tech support and have them go through some other diagnostics.

    Found this
    http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/baseline-fuel-burn-specs-feed-rates-for-englander-25-pdvc.11450/
    "I have been looking at getting a 25-PDVC lately and talked to someone at Englander about the pellet feed rate. I was told that 1lb of pellets to makes 8000 btu of heat. On the low setting it makes 12000 btu's and uses 1.5lbs of pellets per hour. On high it makes about 40000 btu's using about 5lbs of pellets per hour. That is what I was told on the phone today."

    Found this:
    http://forum.iburncorn.com/viewtopic.php?p=45614&sid=3f864113986d62ed9788c87cb360a617
    "I found that a good setting was 3-3-1 and 1 feed rate and 2-3 room blower this will burn about 1.3 an hr 31 lbs in 24 hrs but if you go up to 5-6 feed rate bump up your setting to 3-6-1 ,which is about 3.5 -4 lbs an
    hr all was done 50/50 mix and is pretty clean burn"
    St. Croix Auburn
    Englander 25-PDV

    Attached Files:

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  2. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
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    7,110
    Loc:
    Salem NH
    Hello

    Well according to the call to Englander by interpolating the 1.5 to 5.0 lbs/hr I get the following chart. (I know the LFF button can vary these results)

    Heat____LBS/
    Level___HR

    _1_____1.50
    _2_____1.94
    _3_____2.38
    _4_____2.82
    _5_____3.26
    _6_____3.70
    _7_____4.14
    _8_____4.58
    _9_____5.02

    I talked to England Stove Works support myself and he did not have a chart like the one I estimated above but he stated that in:

    D mode there is a 4.7 second delay on the top Auger and a 16 second cycle
    C mode there is a 7 second delay on the top Auger and a 16 second cycle
    I understand that this stove defaults to D mode program and C mode program puts out more heat.
    However I am not sure what the tech means by delay and cycles, does anyone know?

    OK Delay time means the time the top auger is on.

    So how can I tell if the stove is cranking out the pellets for each setting?
    The tech did say there is no diagnostics for checking cycles, duration or room blower speed but when running the stove you should hear a noticeable difference in room blower fan speeds when changing them from 1 - 9. If not then the control panel can be faulty as long as the room blower is running.


    So for the # 9 heat level do I need to figure how many pellets there are in 5lbs and then measure how pellets come out in one second with a 1 RPM auger and then calculate how many seconds it takes to crank out those pellets?

    Very Rough Example: Say 25 pellets = 5lbs and 5 pellets per second using a 1 rpm auger so level 9 must be 25/5 = 5 second duration to get the 40,000 BTUs seams very close since program d at heat level 9 is on for 4.77 seconds!
    Then do this for each heat level.
  3. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    basically the heat range adjustment changes the amount of "on time" per cycle, each cycle represents one "run" + one "stop" in other words if the "on" is 2 seconds, te "off" will be 14 seconds. if the "on"is 4 seconds the "off " will be 12 seconds and so forth it always adds up to 16 seconds. the "feed amounts" are based on approximations , as you know all pellets are not the same uniform size so the "lbs per hour" are not a "set in stone" rate. FWIW the "on" time on heat range 9 in "D" mode is 4.77 seconds. the On time in C mode heat range 9 is 5.13 seconds. the other heat ranges have scaled differences between c and d as well though i cannot remember them off the top of my head
    Dhosh likes this.
  4. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Hi Mike

    Cool, thanks so much. I do understand cycles and on times and off times when I use waveform analyzers. I am a BSEE. LOL That is a great way to explain the auger heat cycles.

    So for a quick check, all I need to do is crank the stove to heat level 9. (Blower should be at 9 also) then I can use a stop watch to see if the the top auger's duration during ON time is 4.77 secs or approximately 5.0 seconds then I know the control board is good in that area.

    Then when the stove is running change the blower fan settings from 1 to 9 and I should hear the blower speed up and feel more air coming out the front. Using an Anemometer would also be useful here and if it sounds and feels good the control board is good here too!

    Thanks so much
    Have a good night!

    It would be nice to have a chart for each heat level for d mode and c mode. See my diagram below!

    Better yet, just add a molex connector to the side of the pellet stove. All the connections can go to where each component is on the control panel in parallel so it does not effect operation. Then develop and sell your own little waveform analyzer that takes a snap shot of the duty cycles for each heat level and compare the results with specs in the analyzer for the stove model being analyzed. Print out the results and give a tolerance. If not within that spec then print out what to do:
    1. Grease the bearing for Top Or Bottom Auger.
    2. Replace the auger if not moving. (improper current draw) Also a visual input can be made here to observe if the auger is moving.
    3. Tweak the control board or calibrate it for the correct duty cycle.
    4. check fuse
    Add your own checks

    Sell the analyzer and make more money selling components and parts! LOL

    Attached Files:

  5. Dhosh

    Dhosh New Member

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    Hmm ... the reply might look a little funny .. it does in the typing view!

    This is good ... I hadn't realized the upper auger was cyclic. This is very good to know!
    I have a 25-pdvp ... it is my understanding only C and D modes are appropriate for this model?

    I just re-set mine to D, after doing some other tuning, cleaning and pellet change (so .. of course, I won't know WHAT fixed/change WhAT! LOL) ... but I now have nice sharp flames, and very little ash buildup, and after 2 hours, zero suit or anything visible on the window ... it appears most everything is getting burned up! ... I have a digital thermometer 9" in front of the leftmost room air pipe, and the highest temp I got with on 1-3 was 84. 99 with 4-1, and 95 (so far) with 9-1. Lower 3 numbers are 5-4-1.. Unchanged from after re-setting the mode to D. Diagnostics tests OK.

    The lower auger motor appears to have been changed .. the upper, possibly not .. or has been quite a while ago. I suspect there are different RPM motor/gear assymblies that might have been put in? ... i.e. 2 RPM, vs 1RPM??
  6. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    what year model is youre PDVP? parameters differ on it than the more modern versions of the bottom feed units.
  7. Dhosh

    Dhosh New Member

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    Mine is a '96.
  8. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    okies,

    the mode for that unit is "B" and the bottom buttons would be 6-1-1
  9. CladMaster

    CladMaster Feeling the Heat

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    _g:eek: HOT HOT HOT !!! Mode 'B' !

    That will chew some pellets ! :p
  10. Dhosh

    Dhosh New Member

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    Don222 ... What year is your stove? Looks like the actual motor on both the room temp and exhaust are the same (although the fan and housing, themselves are different for obvious reasons). Looks like the auger motors may be the same as well .. just controlled differently by the controller.
    Apparently, I have the wrong replacement controller ... I've forgotten the number on it, but it states 'auto start' on it ... and should have one ending in ....98, I think .. without the auto-start. Wonder if the rest makes a differences.

    Thanks for the very informative post!!

    I'm making a spreadsheet so I can a little more objectively compare various settings in C and D modes, with at least 2 different types of pellets.

    OK ... I will give that a shot ... not what I was expecting!! :)

    Note, the original control board has been replaced with a PU-CB04 ... apparently, it should be a PU-CB98. Will that make a difference? I'm looking to find specs on the proper blower and auger motors also, to make sure they were replaced with something appropriate!
  11. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    augers are different in that old girl. the B mode is set up for that auger set
  12. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    the PU-CB98 is no longer available but when its ordered under that part number its supposed to be calibrated for the older stove (should have had the parameters i mentioned above) nice thing is it will still have the diagnostic function onboard
  13. Dhosh

    Dhosh New Member

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    Very good ... thanks! Who knows what state it was in when I got it .... I just got it used, and the previous fellow had it for a while .. said he had replaced some components on it.

    Thanks!

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