Englander 30 no hotter then 400 degrees

[Eric]

I have had a Englander 30 stove for three seasons and rarely get it up to 400 degrees. I lined my outside chimney with a 6 inch stainless liner and poured perlite insulation around it.
The original chimney is 7x11. The length of this stainless liner is 20 ft. From the 6 inch stainless tee inside the chimney I used one 6" single wall 90 and one 6" single wall 45 with 4' of single wall pipe.
I burn a variety of well seasoned wood(oak, walnut, ash, elm, locust and unknown wood). Seasoned 1 to 3 years. My house is a little drafty. Well insulated in attic but who knows in walls. 1100 sq. ft. ranch with
full basement. Stove is in basement. I build good fires and they look healthy but the temp is low. I checked my thermometer on my cooking stove.

So thats 24' of 6" with one tee, one 45 and one 90 on outside chimney. What do you think?

Thanks, Eric

 

[BrowningBAR]

I have had a Englander 30 stove for three seasons and rarely get it up to 400 degrees. I lined my outside chimney with a 6 inch stainless liner and poured perlite insulation around it.
The original chimney is 7x11. The length of this stainless liner is 20 ft. From the 6 inch stainless tee inside the chimney I used one 6" single wall 90 and one 6" single wall 45 with 4' of single wall pipe.
I burn a variety of well seasoned wood(oak, walnut, ash, elm, locust and unknown wood). Seasoned 1 to 3 years. My house is a little drafty. Well insulated in attic but who knows in walls. 1100 sq. ft. ranch with
full basement. Stove is in basement. I build good fires and they look healthy but the temp is low. I checked my thermometer on my cooking stove.

So thats 24' of 6" with one tee, one 45 and one 90 on outside chimney. What do you think?

Thanks, Eric

Before we move forward, is that seasoned wood split and stacked for one to three years, or just bucked and split later?

 

[Danno77]

I can't imagine not getting any hotter than that with a chimney like that. I'm definitely interested in hearing more about the wood.

You have probably never even seen secondaries light off in there, then, have you?

 

[rottiman]

What do you get when you sweep the chimney? clean or dirty? How clean is the glass? Are the secondaries firing off?

 

[jimbom]

...My house is a little drafty....Stove is in basement....What do you think? Thanks, Eric

Maybe the house is a good chimney in its own right and it is competing with the 6" flue.

 

[tfdchief]

I build good fires and they look healthy but the temp is low. I checked my thermometer on my cooking stove.

What do you think?

Thanks, Eric

Despite the fact that you say you have checked the thermometer, you seem to think the fire burns well, so I would be more inclined to think thermometer is off rather than some other problem, like tdraft. The fire wouldn't "look healthy" if you didn't have a good draft. What kind of thermometer, where is it placed, and how did you check it on your stove? How does the stove heat the house?

 

[BrotherBart]

Hit us with a pic of the stove and inside pipe.

 

[DexterDay]

While running... Its hard to keep it under ^00.. The temp likes to run 550-650 (On reloads, a tad higher.. But settles in the 600* range). I have 3 thermometers on my 30. One at the front opf the stove where the heat goes over the baffle board. Another on the upper step, a few inches in front of the flue (Where the impingement plate is/hottest spot) and then a Condor double wall flue probe..

I get well over 400 on my start-up fire with kindling...,

I to am truly curious about your wood... Also about the thermometer and where its placed.. This stove is one heck of a heater..

Secondaries start on my start-up load... 10 small pieces of kindling, 2 small or med splits on top, 1/2 of a Super Cedar, and a couple pieces of newspaper on the very top to get draft going. I go from stove, to (double wall inside) 4 ft of vert, to a 90*, to 3 ft horizontal, (outside) to Cleanout-T, to 18 ft of Triple wall Class A.. All Simpson.

Drafts like champ... I tried burning 2 splits of Oak that have very little seasoning time. This was the only time I had a hard time getting temp... A few small Pine splits cured that right up... @pieces of Oak were still almost solid in the morning, albiet chared a little.. Wet wood wont burn.

 

[Eric]

Thanks to all that replied. Sorry I did not get back sooner but my computer is down and I am using the Librarys computers.

All my wood is split and single row stacked for 1 to 3 years with tops of stacks covered in burn season.

Thermometer is a cooking thermometer that sits on top of stove.

First floor is warm after few hours but never hot. Basement is better but never hot.


Thanks again

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I get secondaries in 20 minutes from a cold start in my 30. I use a wood stove temp guage,the one with the creosote range below 250 placed on the front of the stove about 4 inches from the front edge. Secondaries start when the guage reads 500 and above. Old brick chimney but it seems to draft well. Stove cruises at 550 -650.

 

[DexterDay]

........Stove cruises at 550 -650.

Yep. With any wood I have burned (even some Ash I split last month, just experimenting/ it still ran over 550*) the stove likes to run in that range..

Made the mistake on reloading on a 4-6" bed of coals. Wow Closed air down immediately Stove had secondaries like you wouldnt believe. I should have recorded it. But seeing the stove top rise to over 800* Really Fast, had my attention else where. I have now learned (and read here) NOT to do this. Was a scary hour or so... Stove gave off the new stove stink again. Live and learn. . . .

Have you tried another thermometer? If it really was reading low? I would think you could "Feel" that its hotter than 400*

 

[pen]

Thermometer is a cooking thermometer that sits on top of stove.

If you thermometer looks like this

then you have the wrong tool for the job.

You need either an IR thermometer or something like this

pen

 

[Eric]

Thanks again to all. Yes PEN the cheap thermometer on top is mine. But even if my thermometer is off why does'nt my basement get hot hot?

Since I got stove I burn only wood and do not use furnace. So when I start a fire the wood burner has to heat a cold house from the get go before it gets warm.
In the morning I have to restoke fire and when I come home from work I do the same. But what about on the week ends when I am able to keep the fire strong for longer times?
The house is warm but never hot like it sounds like it should be.

My basement stairs lead right up to my back door which opens up into my unheated breezeway. The door is not the best. When I am in the family room in the basement I can feel
cold draft from basement stairs. Could this direct draft from the unheated being drawn into or exchanged with my hot air be the problem? I can't think that everybody else that owns a
Englander 30 has a airtite house and does not have cold draft issues.

I do appreciate the help.

 

[begreen]

Try a real stove top thermometer. It could be that you are running at normal temps. Sounds like you are heating outdoors to some extent. Sealing up the basement should make a nice difference. Check the sill plate for leaks and try blocking off the stairway.

Is the basement insulated?

 

[DexterDay]

I am onlu heating about 800-900 sq ft of a 2,200 sq basement. The portion the wood stove is in, is the only unfinished portion and I can get it Blazing hot in that area... The upstairs is also 2,200 (2,180 actually) and it has done a good job on tje few cold nights we have had..

How do you move your air... Natural Convection is nice, but only goes so far. You need to persuade that air to get it where you want it. IMO

 

[SlyFerret]

Hit up Harbor Freight (or their website if there isn't one near you), and pick up one of their handheld IR thermometers. Make sure you get the one that can read up to ~900 degrees, since they have another one that doesn't read high enough for our purposes.

Check the temp on the middle of the top of the stove a coupe inches in front of the stove pipe collar.

If it turns out that you are indeed seeing temps that low...

Do you get secondary combustion in the top of the stove?

Are you running the stove wide open all the time trying to get the temps up? If you are, once the fire is established, start cutting the air back anyway. I've found that once I start backing off the air, the temp starts going up more quickly and the secondaries take hold more readily. On my stove, I cruise with the air closed down almost all the way, but not quite.

Check your baffle boards. Make sure that the baffle boards are set flat on top of the secondary tubes. Make sure that they are pushed all the way to the back of the stove, and centered in the middle of the stove. There should be no way for air/smoke to escape past the baffles except for in the ~2" space in the top of the stove at the very front. When I first got my 30, I had the baffles shifted so that there was a ~1" gap from the front of the stove all the way to the back on the right side. Once I got the baffles set in place right, everything worked properly.

-SF

 

[thewoodlands]

I have had a Englander 30 stove for three seasons and rarely get it up to 400 degrees. I lined my outside chimney with a 6 inch stainless liner and poured perlite insulation around it.
The original chimney is 7x11. The length of this stainless liner is 20 ft. From the 6 inch stainless tee inside the chimney I used one 6" single wall 90 and one 6" single wall 45 with 4' of single wall pipe.
I burn a variety of well seasoned wood(oak, walnut, ash, elm, locust and unknown wood). Seasoned 1 to 3 years. My house is a little drafty. Well insulated in attic but who knows in walls. 1100 sq. ft. ranch with
full basement. Stove is in basement. I build good fires and they look healthy but the temp is low. I checked my thermometer on my cooking stove.

So thats 24' of 6" with one tee, one 45 and one 90 on outside chimney. What do you think?

Thanks, Eric

Go out and buy a couple of these http://www.condar.com/stovepipe_meters.html (any brand) put one on the stove pipe about 16 inches from the collar then put the other one on your stove top.

We have the Lopi Liberty installed in our basement, we have about 21 feet of double wall pipe on the outside and never have a problem with the stove top temps.


zap

 

[Danno77]

Just weighing in that your thermometer is the wrong kind. Get a couple as mentioned by others. Also, a couple of posts up is a comment on closing it up after you get the fire going full tilt. That jives with my experience for the most part as well, and is worth trying. My experience has been with a non-EPA stove, though, so I'm not sure what will happen with the 30.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Trying to heat a house with the stove i the basement you have to include the basement SQ ft in the equation as well. You will feel a lot more heat if you have the stove in the living space unless the basement IS your living space.

 

[Eric]

I get secondary burns and I always make sure baffle boards are in the correct spot and I will try another thermometer.
But why can"t I get my basement hot. I do not have a factory blower that mounts to the stove but I have tried a small house fan to move the heat.
Could that make the diff if my stove is actually getting up to temp like it should?

Thanks to all for your time

 

[pen]

If that stove is actually getting up to 650 or 700 degrees, then that's just all you are going to get out of it.

If it isn't getting that warm, then perhaps I'd suspect your wood isn't dry enough or you don't have a strong enough draft from the chimney because of being too short or too large a diameter.

I'm lucky that my stove can heat my house well from the basement, but we are only talking about 1000ft in the basement and 1000 feet upstairs. Unfortunately, lots of people w/ a stove in their basement find that it just won't do the job for the whole house. A wood stove works better as a space heater.

pen

 

[Eric]

I hear ya Pen.

But if it is because my flue pipe(24 ft of 6" with one tee, one 45 and one 90 on a outside chimney) is the problem then what can I do to fix it?
Is 24ft to long of a run on a outside chimney for 6".

All my wood is split and stacked for 1 to 3 years and the type of wood never seems to change the outcome.

Thanks, Eric

 

[SlyFerret]

Just weighing in that your thermometer is the wrong kind. Get a couple as mentioned by others. Also, a couple of posts up is a comment on closing it up after you get the fire going full tilt. That jives with my experience for the most part as well, and is worth trying. My experience has been with a non-EPA stove, though, so I'm not sure what will happen with the 30.

With my 30, if I leave the air open all the way, too much of the heat goes up the chimney. The stove pipe and chimney get too hot, but the stove itself doesn't. Closing down the air lets the secondaries really take hold, and allows the stove to "go nuclear" as somebody around here once put it.

Keeping the heat inside the firebox longer just makes the whole combustion system work better, and the stove itself heats up like nobody's business.

-SF

 

[pen]

I hear ya Pen.

But if it is because my flue pipe(24 ft of 6" with one tee, one 45 and one 90 on a outside chimney) is the problem then what can I do to fix it?
Is 24ft to long of a run on a outside chimney for 6".

All my wood is split and stacked for 1 to 3 years and the type of wood never seems to change the outcome.

Thanks, Eric

Sounds like the setup and wood is legit.

pen

 

[BrotherBart]

I have sat one of those oven thermos on the 30 for grins before. That thing was at least three hundred degrees low. It is giving you no clue what the stove top temp is.

As to the basement, when I had my office in the basement I had to fire the crap out of the Jotul F3 down there from seven till noon to just warm up the basement. With very little heat getting upstairs. I now have a pellet stove down there this year. I ran it for five hours the other night and it brought the basement temp up from 62 to 68 in five hours. It was 62 degrees outside. It raised the first floor one degree. Or maybe my body heat raised the first floor one degree after a couple of drinks.