englander pdvc-25 leak

[Dr.Faustus]

i've been smelling smoke for the past few days. couldnt find it. not even with the flashlight trick. had the stove since 2006/7 around then. today i had an idea. with the stove off, i lit 3 sticks of incense, put them in the burnpot and waited. easily made every single leak highly visible.

heres the problem. my largest leak is the shaft of the combustion blower !?! theres the fasco motor, its shaft which goes into the combustion fan housing. on the end is the combustion fan. the leak is through the hole in the combustion housing where the motor shaft goes through. did something fall off/melt away? i cant silicone it because of the rotating motor shaft that goes through the hole.

the stove is useable, which it has to be because its my only source of heat. theres the pesky smoke smell. have multiple co detectors in the house, nothing registers on them but still need to fix it. what do i do?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

i've been smelling smoke for the past few days. couldnt find it. not even with the flashlight trick. had the stove since 2006/7 around then. today i had an idea. with the stove off, i lit 3 sticks of incense, put them in the burnpot and waited. easily made every single leak highly visible.

heres the problem. my largest leak is the shaft of the combustion blower !?! theres the fasco motor, its shaft which goes into the combustion fan housing. on the end is the combustion fan. the leak is through the hole in the combustion housing where the motor shaft goes through. did something fall off/melt away? i cant silicone it because of the rotating motor shaft that goes through the hole.

the stove is useable, which it has to be because its my only source of heat. theres the pesky smoke smell. have multiple co detectors in the house, nothing registers on them but still need to fix it. what do i do?

Clean up all of the leaks except the one on the combustion blower, that one should disappear under power.

 

[Dr.Faustus]

thats what i thought too, so i tried it, but it didnt work. still getting smell of it. entire stove is clean top to bottom, brushed, vac'ed and air compressored. i use an oak. my vent is air tight. i think the problem here is the combustion motors built in cooling fan aiding this leaky spot. its a rather largish hole for such a small shaft to pass through. the incense came out of that hole completely unrestricted. seems like some sort of seal is missing?

at first i thought maybe a neg pressure sucking air down my separate fireplace but thats clean too and the small amount of air that does come in doesnt really smell. the smoke smell is the same as if i took off the vent and sniffed the combustion housing.

 

[slvrblkk]

Mine does the same thing but once the stove ignites we never smell anything.....are you still smelling it after the stove has been running for a while?

 

[Dr.Faustus]

yes. smell doesnt change. its there when stove is running. whether its been on 15 minutes or 3 days. except for this spot it is 100% leak free. the incense in the burn pot is a great way to find them. the smoke it makes is highly visible.

 

[DexterDay]

Do the same incense trick, let it get good and smokey, then turn the stove on (can you turn it on, without ignitor starting? If it has one?) Then ise the light and look (also doing when its dark outside and no lights on inside). As Smokey said, that hole for the Comb blower is not a problem when running. Most times its the Stove adapter (1st piece on back of stove) or any joint of your vent inside the house.

Have you recently cleaned your venting?

 

[Dr.Faustus]

whole stove and venting are perfectly clean. i siliconed up any leaks in the stove adapter and venting. i have a great lively flame, great heat and no other issues except this whiff of burnt pellets.
problem with checking while stove is on is that the comb motor has a cooling fan on it. this fan moves air all over the place back there and dissipates smoke way before it can be seen. if it didnt, i could check it. logic would tell me that while the stove is on and motor running, air should be sucked through this hole, not come from it. like almost a venturi suction.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If you have cleaned the combustion blower and did not get things back on and tightened evenly it is possible that under pressure one side of the combustion blower is leaking.

I've seen smoke come out of the darnedest places and sometimes just a bit more of a turn with the ratchet stops it.

I don't get anything out of the combustion blower shaft area if the blower is running. I've seen smoke come out on one side of the blower when running. Doing the static smoke test is a great way of finding all kinds of things however it misses anything that is caused by parts moving in operation and interactions between air handling systems.

 

[Dr.Faustus]

smokey, that makes sense. will whip out the ratchet and get to work. back in 15 minutes.

thanks to everyone by the way for the help. you guys are lightning fast.

 

[Dr.Faustus]

more testing.... incense smoke seems to get sucked into that hole when the stove is on...

seems like air could be getting through the gasket when on but its not blatently obvious.

i tightened up some of the bolts around the comb housing. some took a good 1-2 turns. will retest after dinner. id love to take it apart but i dont have new gaskets so i need to order those first, then do a good disassembly.

 

[TLHinCanada]

I remember a thread from last month were the same thing was discussed. I think Mike from englander said there was no seal around the blower shaft. The smell goes away when the flame starts.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

there's never been a seal there, no real way to do it im aware of but you simply shouldnt lose smoke though that while its running.

whats the install look like? do you go up and out or out and up?

if up and out , check the underside of the TEE the "bottom of the cup" so to speak, i have 2 in my system and they both leaked horribly, i sealed the underside with silicone and havent had a whiff since except at startup.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

A closer tolerance hole would help some. But I don't even get a whiff at start up on my stove.

The OP burned some incense in the unit when off and found a number of leaks, don't know if he checked the Tee or not.

 

[Dr.Faustus]

it goes to a tee inside then up then out. theres silicone on every piece of the tee even the cleanout cap. its simpson duravent and it leaked horribly until i sealed it all up.

i dunno i still have to rule out the fireplace as the source i suppose. too dark and cold to do that now. i still suspect the fireplace backdrafting because the smell comes in "poofs" now that i think about it. like 5 mins no smell then poof strong smell then 5 mins no smell again. i'll also check the attic make sure the soffit isnt pulling in anything.

funny thing is that i've had the stove for a good many years. its been my sole source of heat for a long time. had to have run more than 25 tons through it and its never had this problem before. its a great stove all in all. still original everything.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If you break a seal on the outside of a through the wall thimble you can also get what you are describing. It will depend upon the wind direction and will be worse on low burns.

Low burns on some stoves allow the fire to die down so much it gets close to going out and then the pellets hit the pot and do a bit of smoldering before going poof.

 

[Dr.Faustus]

update:

It has gone away mysteriously on its own, just like it came on. Im beginning to believe it was never my stove, but rather someone in my neighborhood with a dirty burning fireplace, wood stove or OWB.

some good came out of it - i sealed up my stove super tight and its really clean now. lol

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

update:

It has gone away mysteriously on its own, just like it came on. Im beginning to believe it was never my stove, but rather someone in my neighborhood with a dirty burning fireplace, wood stove or OWB.

some good came out of it - i sealed up my stove super tight and its really clean now. lol

Pay attention the next time you clean the venting. Just having the smell go away "on its own" isn't what one really wants to happen.

It could be it is a leak in the tee cap area that will seal itself with ash after the stove is running for awhile.

This same thing can happen at any joint in the venting, sucking the ash out reopens the leak.