Englander pellet stove...outside air kit or not?

[SingledadMI]

Hello again! Thanks for all the help before, it's greatly appreciated. Now I've been reading for a few days about installing an OAK with my Englander. I know the manual says it's "required", but then I've read that if it's drawing in air that is below 50* that it defeats the purpose and would be better just drawing in air from the house. I live in Michigan, so it's more than likely I'll be below 0 plenty of times, and my home is not "airtight"..should I install the OAK or not? I bought my stove used, so if I do install it will be something custom I have to make. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

 

[TimfromMA]

OAK air is used for combustion then blown out the vent. If you don't use OAK, you will be sucking in heated house air then blowing it outside. This air will be replaced by cold outside air leaking in from all over creating cool drafts.

 

[Wilbur Feral]

There are about 9 zillion posts explaining this. Just search and read, and you will see the same good advice Tim just gave. I wish the mod would just pick any few of the posts explaining this and post a sticky, but I think that would reduce board traffic by some astronomical amount.

 

[SingledadMI]

I read numerous posts, but no one who really had any solid reason behind why you should besides the manual says to. Then I read around more and it made sense that if it was bring in bitter cold air that the stove wouldn't combust correctly. I'm still new to all of this so I'm just trying to figure everything out

 

[Jason845845]

If the manual say it is mandatory, it must be installed. It is not installed to code/UL listing if it is not installed precisely as the manual requires.

 

[TimfromMA]

I read numerous posts, but no one who really had any solid reason behind why you should besides the manual says to. Then I read around more and it made sense that if it was bring in bitter cold air that the stove wouldn't combust correctly. I'm still new to all of this so I'm just trying to figure everything out

Yes, install OAK. If its mandatory for your stove and you don't put it in, don't expect your insurance to pay in the extremely unlikely event of a stove related house fire. Even if it wasn't required, it's still a very good idea.

 

[sperley03]

I put mine so it's sucking in air from the breezeway between the house and garage. Code enforcement signed off on it and just had an audit from insurance company.

 

[Wilbur Feral]

I read numerous posts, but no one who really had any solid reason behind why you should besides the manual says to. Then I read around more and it made sense that if it was bring in bitter cold air that the stove wouldn't combust correctly. I'm still new to all of this so I'm just trying to figure everything out

You will not experience air so cold that it will significantly affect combustion in a properly performing pellet stove. Thousands of years of people building fires to stay warm, even in polar regions if they could find fuel, can attest to that along with the many Canadians and Alaskans on this board who have an OAK.

Without an OAK, you will experience accelerated air exchange throughout much of your home at a rate that affects the amount of cold outside air drawn into the living space. You will then need to heat that air to remain comfortable, and likely humidify it as well. The whole reason for an OAK is to prevent that. Google "air sealing and insulating" or "air seal building envelope" or something similar and you will see the principle of this. The idea is to use cold outside air for combustion (only), preventing the use of air you have already heated for that same purpose.

Bottom line: OAK ALWAYS BETTER. PERIOD.

And welcome to the forum. Enjoy.

 

[SingledadMI]

Ok thanks, guys! I'll put it in like I had initially planned. I'm just worried about the bitter cold air affecting the heat output. Guess I'll find out!

 

[OhioBurner©]

What temp are the pellets actually burning at, 1,000ºF to 1,500ºF? I know when I've shot hot coals in my woodstove they were over the 1,200 degree rating of my temperature gun. I don't think your air source for the combustion being 60º cooler is going to make much a difference. At the worse it would be the equivalent of what sucking the cooler air into the house would be, but instead of 0º air leaking in tiny bits here and there, you're lowering the heating effect of your stove by a few degrees.

 

[Stretch]

I ran an Englander pellet stove for about 10 years, and it works great with the outside air kit. We also had an oil boiler for hot water and what turned out to be back up baseboard heat. Two appliances pulling inside air will lower the pressure in a tight house and compromise the performance of both. The pellet stove takes a lot of air, so let it use outside
air. The other advantage of using outside air that no one has mentioned today, is the fact that cold outside air is denser and has more oxygen in it. More oxygen results in improved combustion - just ask any drag racer! Mount your intake a foot or so higher than your stove intake and you'll get a wee bit of downdraft effect, too.

I bored a hole through the wall and put a PVC pipe in, and ran the metal hose in the kit through that. It worked great.

There are only advantages in using outside air for combustion in your stove. Good Luck!

-Stretch

 

[SingledadMI]

Thanks, everyone! Appreciate all the advice Stretch, that's how I planned on running mine with PVC pipe. I won't be able to mount it a foot higher, but I'm going to run it for sure with all of your guys' help!

 

[OhioBurner©]

Does anyone insulate there OAK? I hear talk all the time about cutting down on pulling cold air into the house but none on insulating the OAK, which is a nice big aluminum heat exchanger. I figure most have only short runs, but I'm going to end up with about 10 foot and also larger 3" aluminum pipe. By my calculations I think that's around 1200 square inches or 8.6 square feet of aluminum across my living room with sub freezing air against it (and also the equivalent of hundreds of little cooling fins on it!). Maybe a little less since the last few feet by the stove is 2" to hook up to the stove. I did buy some foil backed pipe wrap insulation.

 

[TimfromMA]

I insulated mine mostly because of the condensation. It would be dripping wet.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Hello again! Thanks for all the help before, it's greatly appreciated. Now I've been reading for a few days about installing an OAK with my Englander. I know the manual says it's "required", but then I've read that if it's drawing in air that is below 50* that it defeats the purpose and would be better just drawing in air from the house. I live in Michigan, so it's more than likely I'll be below 0 plenty of times, and my home is not "airtight"..should I install the OAK or not? I bought my stove used, so if I do install it will be something custom I have to make. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

yes do it , not only because we require it but because when its not hooked up you will be wasting heat, i'll explain;

typically a pellet stove will pull anywhere from50 to 80 cubic ft of air per minute through the unit for combustion. this air must obviously come from somewhere, now if its pulled from inside of the house one of two things will happen,
1. it will magnify the cold air intrusion around windows doors and such making the house cooler in the areas where the leaks are occurring. so in essence the "make up air" is coming in through these leaks. all the while you are sucking "room temp" air, that you have already paid to heat through the stove and blowing it outside. (this is the one nobody thinks about) and replacing it with cold air drawn in through the leaks I mentioned above.

or
2. the house is really tight and doesn't let the "makeup" air in, in which case the stove will not burn as intended due to lack of oxygen.

 

[Wilbur Feral]

I insulated mine most because of the condensation. It would be dripping wet.

OhioBurner, This is the most common reason for insulating the OAK. Think about what a glass of ice water does on a hot, humid day - it sweats, because the moist air condenses when it touches the much cooler surface of the glass. If you have sufficient moisture in your home, the surface of the OAK will "sweat", and you will end up with moisture on your floor. We try to maintain 40-50% relative humidity in the winter and have not had a problem with this, but it rarely gets colder than 5-10 F here, and even that is rare.

 

[Jigger]

If your going through the outside wall with PVC pipe. Make certain that you put an angle coupling on the end with a stubby piece pointing down. To help protect it from ingesting snow into it producing a glog.

 

[SingledadMI]

Awesome thank you guys so much for all the help!

 

[TimfromMA]

OhioBurner, This is the most common reason for insulating the OAK. Think about what a glass of ice water does on a hot, humid day - it sweats, because the moist air condenses when it touches the much cooler surface of the glass. If you have sufficient moisture in your home, the surface of the OAK will "sweat", and you will end up with moisture on your floor. We try to maintain 40-50% relative humidity in the winter and have not had a problem with this, but it rarely gets colder than 5-10 F here, and even that is rare.

Here's something I just thought of. Does having insulation on the OAK pipe right up to the stove like I do violate my stoves required clearance to combustibles?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

If your going through the outside wall with PVC pipe. Make certain that you put an angle coupling on the end with a stubby piece pointing down. To help protect it from ingesting snow into it producing a glog.

PVC is not allowed by code for intake on solid fuelled appliances (wood or pellet stoves) must be metal

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Here's something I just thought of. Does having insulation on the OAK pipe right up to the stove like I do violate my stoves required clearance to combustibles?

Fiberglass isn't combustible!

edit
Neither is mineral wool.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

PVC is not allowed by code for intake on solid fuelled appliances (wood or pellet stoves) must be metal

I think he is using the PVC as a thimble and running the OAK through it.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Thanks, everyone! Appreciate all the advice Stretch, that's how I planned on running mine with PVC pipe. I won't be able to mount it a foot higher, but I'm going to run it for sure with all of your guys' help!

Must be metal no PVC.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Here's something I just thought of. Does having insulation on the OAK pipe right up to the stove like I do violate my stoves required clearance to combustibles?

Just don't use insulation with paper or anything combustible on it. I got a roll of foil backed pipe wrap, hope that should do me.

 

[TimfromMA]

Just don't use insulation with paper or anything combustible on it. I got a roll of foil backed pipe wrap, hope that should do me.

That's what I am using but I was concerned that it qualified as combustible for the purpose of required clearances.