Everything Drolet Tundra - Heatmax...

[DoubleB]

I thought I posted this before but apparently not.

Don't doubt yourself, you did post it. Post #226 on page 10.

FYI to everyone, I'm working on a table of contents, this being an example where I used it to quickly find something that otherwise is a memory. I'm excited about it. It'll be awesome, if I may say so myself. I'm almost done and will post it when ready.

 

[brenndatomu]

Don't doubt yourself, you did post it. Post #226 on page 10.

Thanks, I thought so but I couldn't come up with it this afternoon...too big of a hurry I guess

 

[STIHLY DAN]

I say BS. SBI is great, but this is the stuff that frustrates me. If you get cracking, SBI will say you abused your furnace and installed it incorrectly.

For how long are people going to say this statement. Its been years now with miss information or out rite lies, yet people continue to think they are "great". Man I just don't get it.

 

[DoubleB]

I wouldn't imply too much emphasis on the "great". I appreciate that they've refunded or replaced everyone's furnace that I recall, they periodically demonstrate great acts of customer service, and they offer products that a lot of people like. But I don't trust them except to refund people's money.

The only efficient non-SBI option at the moment is your Kuuma. Given the price tag, SBI is the only option for most of us, so it's a love/hate relationship.

 

[brenndatomu]

For how long are people going to say this statement. Its been years now with miss information or out rite lies, yet people continue to think they are "great". Man I just don't get it.

Kinda like the Ferrari owner comin on the Taurus owners forum to rag on 'em...no?

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Kinda like the Ferrari owner comin on the Taurus owners forum to rag on 'em...no?

I do not mean it like that. I would have said that even if I did not burn wood. NO matter how good the furnace is, the "other stuff" is what would/does piss me off.
I also am interested in all heating appliances as that is what I do and the wood half is also a hobby. So I do enjoy this thread and the good people in it, along with some of the great idea's that have been brought to light. I think you all should take over the production of the tundra. Now that would be something.

 

[maple1]

I wouldn't imply too much emphasis on the "great". I appreciate that they've refunded or replaced everyone's furnace that I recall, they periodically demonstrate great acts of customer service, and they offer products that a lot of people like. But I don't trust them except to refund people's money.

The only efficient non-SBI option at the moment is your Kuuma. Given the price tag, SBI is the only option for most of us, so it's a love/hate relationship.

Are the Caddys SBI also?

 

[brenndatomu]

Are the Caddys SBI also?

Yup

 

[jb6l6gc]

Kinda like the Ferrari owner comin on the Taurus owners forum to rag on 'em...no?

Hey it could aleways be worse I could still be burning my old hotblast and have to get up on the roof mid season for a liner clean down. After running my heatmax for a bit now the only thing I will say that im not impressed with is the fan. Just like my hotblast it seems a little under powered for what they have this thing spec'd out to do! I may end up uprgrading that in the near future!

 

[brenndatomu]

Hey it could aleways be worse I could still be burning my old hotblast and have to get up on the roof mid season for a liner clean down. After running my heatmax for a bit now the only thing I will say that im not impressed with is the fan. Just like my hotblast it seems a little under powered for what they have this thing spec'd out to do! I may end up uprgrading that in the near future!

Hmm, that's weird, never heard complaints on the fan before. I can't come anywhere near to being able to run mine on high...cycles way too much

 

[jb6l6gc]

Hmm, that's weird, never heard complaints on the fan before. I can't come anywhere near to being able to run mine on high...cycles way too much

I've been running mine on high and it doesnt cycle at all except for at startup, my electric furnace fan pushes air at a much higher rate then this thing.
I think I may be because I'm right at the top end of sq footage this thing was meant to handle. I upgraded my fan on the hotblast and it was like night and day. If I come accross a good used 120v furnace fan I may just do the same to this thing, we shall see!

 

[JRHAWK9]

I've been running mine on high and it doesnt cycle at all except for at startup, my electric furnace fan pushes air at a much higher rate then this thing.
I think I may be because I'm right at the top end of sq footage this thing was meant to handle. I upgraded my fan on the hotblast and it was like night and day. If I come accross a good used 120v furnace fan I may just do the same to this thing, we shall see!

Have you checked your static pressures, both return and supply? Are you running a super restrictive air filter? Seems odd to me. You are obviously not moving much air, so either your return or supply side is somehow being restricted. I would think, normally, in a large house, you'd have the opposite problem where you have too little supply static pressure from all the supply registers.

 

[Pinny]

Don't doubt yourself, you did post it. Post #226 on page 10.

FYI to everyone, I'm working on a table of contents, this being an example where I used it to quickly find something that otherwise is a memory. I'm excited about it. It'll be awesome, if I may say so myself. I'm almost done and will post it when ready.

Thank you! I have read almost the whole forum looking for information and yet I feel like I am going to ask a question that's already been asked.

 

[brenndatomu]

You are obviously not moving much air, so either your return or supply side is somehow being restricted

This is what I'm thinking too, there is a restriction there somewhere, the only way mine is gonna run on high without cycling is damper open and a RIPPIN for goin. (lots of BTUs up the chimney too)

 

[DoubleB]

Welcome to hearth, @Pinny !

I have read almost the whole forum looking for information and yet I feel like I am going to ask a question that's already been asked.

Sure, that's possible, but no worries. The idea of the table of contents is to help, certainly not to suggest the same question can't be asked twice. We look forward to hearing from you.

 

[DoubleB]

Ok everyone, I finished and posted a Table of Contents for this thread. (Actually, I ended up calling it a "Information Guide", but that's not very important.)

It's in its own thread that will probably become a sticky. The moderators will probably lock that thread to keep the discussion over here, not there. More description (and references) are in that other thread.

Currently, the thread is here, although the moderators might revise this url once it gets to it's final home:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/tundra-heatmax-information-guide.157330/

Also, Brenndatomu, I, or anyone else that desires may put this url in our signature lines so that people can quickly click to the TOC (or whatever it's called).

I hope you find it helpful. I already have in the last couple days as I was preparing it. A fun trip down memory lane, too!

 

[maple1]

Wouldn't a TOC maybe be better if it was on the first page of the thread instead? Then it would always be right there.

A mod could likely insert it there if wanted. It sure would be handy though - this thread is a monster full of lots of golden info.

 

[brenndatomu]

Wouldn't a TOC maybe be better if it was on the first page of the thread instead? Then it would always be right there.

A mod could likely insert it there if wanted. It sure would be handy though - this thread is a monster full of lots of golden info.

The only problem with that is it is a PITA to update then, would almost have to lock the thread...which we talked about doing. May start a "part 2" here at some point...and then also a "TII" thread when those start popping up...
Get to thinking about it, since the link to the TOC is in my sig line now the TOC is kinda in the first post now

A big thanks goes out to @DoubleB for making this TOC, a ton of time tied up in it I'm sure!

 

[jb6l6gc]

Have you checked your static pressures, both return and supply? Are you running a super restrictive air filter? Seems odd to me. You are obviously not moving much air, so either your return or supply side is somehow being restricted. I would think, normally, in a large house, you'd have the opposite problem where you have too little supply static pressure from all the supply registers.

I'm running a 12" round return to the tundra. I wonder if that's restricting it?

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Wow, that is a ton of work for a "volunteer" Someone is very passionate about these units. The only suggestion I can offer is to maybe bring up in the 1st 5, The ash pan issues on the 1st models. This is a life and death issue with these units and as far as we know SBI has not reached out to the owners of the deadly design flaw. Now they are selling display models that may well be the same death traps as the original. Maybe just a warning in the beginning about the deadly start of the Tundra.

 

[TDD11]

Ok.. so I borrowed some equipment from work. I don't know the chimney height yet, but it is a 8x12" clay lined chimney that goes up through the center of the house.

I loaded the little Jotul this morning, and returned to a few coals today around 5. What I'm getting at is that I didn't have a cold chimney, but I didn't have a hot one either. I don't have a problem with smoke when starting a fire on a cold stove/chimney, but you guys have had me worried about chimney draft when I go with the Tundra. I raked what few coals I had, and threw 2 split pieces of ash on, one a good dry piece and one that is probably over 20% moisture.

I added a precision K type Omega thermocouple to the flue, right after the key damper (which is left open for all of this). This TC is centered in the flue. I also added a Dwyer Series 2000-00 Magnehelic gauge that I got free from work, connected to a 1/4" stainless tube, which is also centered in the flue pipe, perpendicular to the flow.

With the intake damper on the stove open, and a flue temp (measured with an annually calibrated Fluke Thermocouple meter from work) of 350*F, I get .04 to .05 w.c. of draft. This is with no other appliances on, and windows closed. If I open a basement window I pick up .001 w.c. of draft. If I run the clothes dryer in an adjacent room in the basement, I drop .001 w.c. of draft. Also of note, I have noticed that the draft level could be improved upon. This little Jotul has cracks in the back corners, and the back plate isn't sealed up tight enough, so I am losing some draft at the back of my stove.

Is the .004 w.c. to .006 w.c. suggested range at room temp flue, or at a certain temperature??

My concern is this.. everyone is suggesting a 6" steel chimney, even Drolet themselves in the manual. However, I come from a whole family of bricklayers, and this house was built by my grandpa 26 years ago. They might disown me if I put in a stainless liner but also because the chimney has an offset in it which would add to the difficulty of a potential liner.

I want to cross my T's and dot my I's before installing this Drolet Tundra in my basement. What alternate measurements would you guys like to see, in regards to my chimney and how much draft I have?

 

[brenndatomu]

Is the .004 w.c. to .006 w.c. suggested range at room temp flue, or at a certain temperature??

At operating temp. It will be almost zero with a cold chimney. The draft readings will go up with cold weather...it was pretty warm today (if you did it today)
The issue with an oversized flue (especially an un-insulated masonry one) is that once you get the firebox into cruise mode (damper closed) there is not enough heat wasted up the chimney to keep it warm and drafting consistently. Ask @Digger79 about this...he found this to be true after putting up an insulated 6" chimney (the second time around)

 

[TDD11]

At operating temp. It will be almost zero with a cold chimney. The draft readings will go up with cold weather...it was pretty warm today (if you did it today)
The issue with an oversized flue (especially an un-insulated masonry one) is that once you get the firebox into cruise mode (damper closed) there is not enough heat wasted up the chimney to keep it warm and drafting consistently. Ask @Digger79 about this...he found this to be true after putting up an insulated 6" chimney (the second time around)

I fully believe that. What is the typical operating temp of the Tundra while in cruise mode? I'm not doubting that other users have had issues, or that I am likely to as well. I'm just trying to get an idea as to how bad it might be.

And yes, you're correct, that was today. I meant to add that to my post. 50*F outdoor temperature.

 

[brenndatomu]

What is the typical operating temp of the Tundra while in cruise mode?

Mine seems to like to settle in around 3-350* after loading...some seem to run a little hotter.

The fact that the chimney is internal to the house will help...but that is all the more reason to line it IMO, more likely to burn the house down if there is a chimney fire (IMO) A properly lined and insulated chimney helps me sleep at night...and feel better about leaving for work in the morning right after loading the furnace for the day with my family still sleeping in their beds...

The other thing is that unless you can actually verify that the whole chimney has proper clearances to the wood framing then it is required by code to be lined/insulated...very few are proper from what I hear...dang framing crews

 

[brenndatomu]

The only suggestion I can offer is to maybe bring up in the 1st 5, The ash pan issues on the 1st models. This is a life and death issue with these units and as far as we know SBI has not reached out to the owners of the deadly design flaw. Now they are selling display models that may well be the same death traps as the original. Maybe just a warning in the beginning about the deadly start of the Tundra.

Good point. I don't think very many people are using the ash pans just because it is easier to shovel it out and be done with it, but yeah, we need to bring it up again since there may be some older units going into service.
I don't get how the ash drawers on wood stoves don't cause problems, most of em are literally just a metal drawer hangin under the stove where you scoop ash into...not sealed at all!