So I’ve been thinking about a grid-tied solar system for sometime now for my small 880sf (plus 880sf unfinished basement) place but I always thought it’d be something I’d do myself when I was done with everything else (siding, windows, doors inside and out, trim, furnace, roofs etc) I’ve had planned for the 70’s house and it’s large detached garage until I got a better job recently with more pay (and I’m okay) and got a price I could afford, it will be a 3.6Kw 8 LongI 450w panel array for $16,000 installed and I’ll pay $11,000 of that after federal and state incentives. I can’t recall who makes the inverter but I think it will be an outside mounted one with everything monitorEd on its app. Unfortunately they it won’t be installed until spring when the ground thaws in late April but that’s fine. It seems like a good thing to do now with some thoughts of maybe getting a EV in a few years and the recent electricity price increase we got making our power rate at about $0.14/KWh now up a few cents. it costs just $13 a month to be on the grid though which is a third or less than some neighborI got communities up here in NW Wisconsin so that’s good.
Finally pulled the trigger on solar
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It's not a decision I have yet to regret. I'm actually considering upgrading my 3kw system to 4kw as our demand has grown.
Did you get more than 1 quote for that system? Reason I ask is my dad just had a 4.5kw grid mount installed, 10 450 watt Longi panels, and fronius inverter. His system was $17k and our dollar is worth 25% less than yours.
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
My 7.2 kW system on the roof was $22395 before tax credits ($10k and change after) 4 yrs ago. So yours is also more expensive as mine.
Maybe you're far out in the country and that adds cost?
Maybe you're far out in the country and that adds cost?
They said panels have gone up lately partly due to the lawsuit against China solar manufacturers for some reason or another and other factors. I got two bids and one was almost $400 lower but the company I went with has been installing solar for over 20 years and the other installer wouldn’t return calls until I called many times And then it was a long wait yet. I went with All Energy Solar from Minnesota, and I am most definitely in the sticks and over 3 hours from the installer. I think my inverter will be a Fronius also. I wondering if I should have done this now But it’s too late the contract has been signed. 
That is correct, panel prices have went up, inverter prices have went up and availability on many models has been restricted due to demand and limited manufacturing capability. Everything has went up, copper prices for wiring, breakers, junction boxes, the list is endless really. If the installer is 3 hours from you they have to pay their employees travel too. There's also other factors like permits and even engineering if needed, again costs money.
If you had 2 quotes come in that close that would make me feel more comfortable about the purchase.
I didn't mean to give you buyers remorse. I thought the same when I first bought mine, but everytime power prices increase (which they have done a lot lately) I'm laughing while everyone else I know is crying.
Enjoy your purchase, and the power they will provide for at least the next 25 years. Post up some pics too once it's installed.
If you had 2 quotes come in that close that would make me feel more comfortable about the purchase.
I didn't mean to give you buyers remorse. I thought the same when I first bought mine, but everytime power prices increase (which they have done a lot lately) I'm laughing while everyone else I know is crying.
Enjoy your purchase, and the power they will provide for at least the next 25 years. Post up some pics too once it's installed.
It all factors in, China tariffs and the application of them to panels manufactured in third party countries dropped supply raising demand especially for smaller firms that did not have bulk supply contracts, shortage of inverters due to chip shortages, increase in labor cost due to labor shortage, demand for solar is most likely up with the increased federal incentive (back to 30%), there may be state and utility incentives that have increased demand, travel costs to and from site, a done day job may have turned into two day job, was there a need to upgrade the electrical panel, what type of roof and racking.
Power prices are going up unless the US decides in the voting booth to stick its collective head in the sand with respect to global warming, they did it 6 years ago and may do it again in two years. The price of solar seems to have flattened out and most new tech is just incremental, sure there may be short term supply demand variations but its good investment in the long run assuming the owner did not give away the "farm" by signing a lease, power purchase agreement or other creative way of paying for it.
Power prices are going up unless the US decides in the voting booth to stick its collective head in the sand with respect to global warming, they did it 6 years ago and may do it again in two years. The price of solar seems to have flattened out and most new tech is just incremental, sure there may be short term supply demand variations but its good investment in the long run assuming the owner did not give away the "farm" by signing a lease, power purchase agreement or other creative way of paying for it.
PassionForFire&Water
Minister of Fire
Giving the "farm" away ....
I decided on a lease in 2015 or 2016
The system is 12.7 kW - residential - grid tied
I don't remember the dollar amount at that time to own it: $36,000 or $46,000 - it was a lot.
I did not have the money to own it, and was also not interested in owing it.
I have zero $$$ invested
It saves me a lot
I started with $0.126 per kW with a 2.8% annual escalator
I still feel very good about it, knowing that the rates will keep going up in MA; I read somewhere on this forum 64% before the end of 2022
My company offers heat purchase agreements for wood chip fired biomass installations, it's very similar.
America buys everything on credit form housing to TVs to dental work.
Why not PV?
In my opinion it's better going PV with a lease then sitting on the sideline if you dont have the money or you cant finace it.
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Looks like you went in with eyes wide open and understood what you signed. I see a lot of other folks who did not and regretted it. Even with a crappy deal, it would be hard not to come out well with a solar deal this winter.
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
While you did not buy PV, and thus you did not buy it on credit (I did, getting ownership and having had a loan for it - which is my understanding of the terminology "buying on credit"), I completely agree with the latter point: if you can't finance it, it's better to lease PV than pay rates that increase faster than the PV lease rate.
One of the many issues with leases is the cost that the deal is based on. The federal rebate is based on raw installed cost so the number of panels is maximized even though the site conditions means a lot of shade, I have seen a lot of Vivent installations in areas with lots of tall hardwoods that shade the panels for much of the day during several months of the year. The companies come up with creative ways of taking long term costs and front loading them on the reported cost of the install to boost the federal rebate. That means the lease is based on high initial cost, it may not be an issue in the short term, but the leasing company now has an effective lien on the house and there is usually a clause that the new owner has to be approved to take over the lease. In many cases, the buyer does not want to take over the lease and the owner has to buy out the remaining term at a cost much higher than expected. This frequently torpedoes a house sale in a normal market. In many cases the original leases were based on interest rates far above near zero market rates that were available until recently.
Most of the big firms build up a portfolio of systems and then package multiple installations into a single package and sell to third party. They have already made their money up front and have little incentive to maintain the systems so when something goes wrong the system may not be working but the third party is expecting their payments.
Salesman on commission just love the current circumstances, a short term crisis allows them to sell long term contracts. They will not waste a lot of time on people who ask the right questions and spend the time to understand the details, they instead will go after the uneducated who are desperate to do something right now.
Most of the big firms build up a portfolio of systems and then package multiple installations into a single package and sell to third party. They have already made their money up front and have little incentive to maintain the systems so when something goes wrong the system may not be working but the third party is expecting their payments.
Salesman on commission just love the current circumstances, a short term crisis allows them to sell long term contracts. They will not waste a lot of time on people who ask the right questions and spend the time to understand the details, they instead will go after the uneducated who are desperate to do something right now.
BTW during the last housing crash, folks were reportedly selling the leased solar panels on their homes on craigslist before the bank foreclosed. Lots of great deals on used solar equipment in areas with high foreclosures just dont ask a lot of questions
Well the array is in and online, total out of pocket cost after state and federal credits is $10,500 for a small 3.6KWh 8 panel array. Unfortunately the power utility won’t do credits so it’s month to month and they pay just a penny per KWh if I don’t use the unused power put back into the grid . I’m making 50% more power than I use now and next year I’ll buy a new Bolt 2 EV if they introduce it then or possibly I’ll get a used one, time will tell. If I need to buy some power that’s fine since it’s not too expensive at $0.123 per KWh any time of the day or night.
PS: the panels are Longo 450W, the microinverters are Enphase IQ7A’s, the combiner is a Enphase. It’s a ground mount array.
PS: the panels are Longo 450W, the microinverters are Enphase IQ7A’s, the combiner is a Enphase. It’s a ground mount array.
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bogieb
Minister of Fire
Are you planning on getting a battery backup, either whole house or smaller battery storage? It might be worth it (and there are federal tax credits for those too), especially if you are only getting $0.01 per kwh for your overage. Recently I accrued a couple of smaller battery banks for emergency backup power, but I am also using them to power appliances when my household solar isn't producing.
Not at this moment, I’ll wait and see how the power produced works with a EV in the garage in the not too distant future first as I’m thinking that will use up much of the overages I have now.
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Congrats... but I would not expect a Boltium to show up until 2025 at the earliest, and at scale even later.
The promised Equinox and Silverados last year, and have only launched just launched the latter recently. Ultium production is lagging badly from hopes, and the Boltium will be the last to get cells, being the lowest profit margin.
The promised Equinox and Silverados last year, and have only launched just launched the latter recently. Ultium production is lagging badly from hopes, and the Boltium will be the last to get cells, being the lowest profit margin.
Yes after some more reading that what I summarized too, I’ll look into it again late next summer and see if there’s more info available on the new Bolt.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
By that time used EVs will be below 25k and eligible for the used EV tax credit. I don’t have clear vision of how/why the Boltium was brought back if they didn’t plan on volume production earlier.
Do you have any battery storage incentives other than fed tax credit
DBoon
Minister of Fire
I have my doubts and suspicions of GM on their Bolt announcement - GM really doesn't want to make smaller cars. I think they are taking a play from Tesla's vaporware playbook. The new Bolt must be at least 3 years away, and as we get closer to that time period, I could see them changing their minds about whether it really happens at all.
DBoon
Minister of Fire
Congrats on your new PV array! Is your net metering reset monthly? If so, have you thought about adding a minisplit heat pump to absorb any (predicted or actual) electricity that might occur during a winter month? Wisconsin is pretty sunny, in general, in the winter, so you might find you have pretty good solar PV production during the winter months.
I haven’t looked into battery incentives yet and I don’t know if I will since to be on the grid costs just $13 here, compared to $45 in surrounding electric areas. If I was looking at $540 a year for grid tie and the lousy penny per KWh I get for my overages I’d look into it more I’m sure.
Yes unfortunately net meter resets every month here and they only pay a penny per KWh for my overages. IIRC i was saying I’ll see how things go after a EV purchase in the future and if I end up buying a small amount of power that’s fine for me.
I think its the mixture of EV+capitalism. Margins will always be higher on the luxury end of things, and the profit per kWh of battery easier to reach. So ALL the makers are going to start at the top and work their way down.
The original Bolt and earlier legacy maker EVs were compliance cars, built at a loss in low volumes for beta testing and to get carbon credits, and tax incentives propped up sales. So those were ALL the exception rather than the rule.
The 2022/23 Bolt is weird... they did scale the volume a bit above compliance levels. I assume they got a better price for the batteries and drivetrains from LG in 2021 than they got in 2016. And the design has several cheapo economy features throughout, according to various teardowns. I think they are treating as a 'loyalty program' to develop a fleet of GM branded EV buyers, under the mistaken notion that we will be loyal to them bc we drove the Bolt for a few years. That would explain them sending me a $6k 'thank you' check a few months after purchase, which covers over a third of my 3 year lease cost!
Jokes on them... I'm not loyal at all. My next EV will be the cheapest thing that meets my needs.
The Boltium is def vaporware, and whether they make it or not depends of factors out of GM's control, mostly the state of the marketplace and battery prices and available volume in a couple years.
I’ve recently saw a nice used 2019 Bolt with a new warranty battery and low miles or sub $25,000. I think it had the better options package too.
I'm surprised by the high cost of solar in the USA. Our 5.3 Kw array with Inverter installed cost us NZ $13,500 ( US $8,100). There is no government subsidy of any kind here.
The price of solar in New Zealand has gone up by 25% in the last two years but would still seem a lot less expensive than the USA.
www.mysolarquotes.co.nz
The price of solar in New Zealand has gone up by 25% in the last two years but would still seem a lot less expensive than the USA.
The Price of a Solar Power System
The price of solar power systems in New Zealand starts from $6,000 fully installed. The cost of solar panels has dropped drastically over recent years.
www.mysolarquotes.co.nz
My guess is that this is tariff related. Are the prices quoted for solar panels and inverters from China? Does NZ manufacture solar panels?
