Fireplace doors

[Tsiskwa]

Greetings,

We have a double sided or see through fireplace. We initially had our local dealer come to our home to investigate installing two wood burning inserts back to back in the space. We like being able to see the fire from either our kitchen or Great Room, but we’re also sick of being cold in the winter, and we actually want some heat. After measuring the fireplace (which has an arched opening), he said that our idea wouldn’t really work.

Essentially because of the size and shape of the opening, and given the depth of the fireplace, we would be looking at small inserts, and even then the fit would be tight. Knowing that aesthetics are also a concern of ours, he recommended Stoll Fireplace Doors with Pyro-ceramic glass. The cost is less than two inserts would be, but still not cheap at approximately $6,000. (It’s actually 5 something.)

However, I have been unable to find reviews online. I did ask about installing two of the Stoll Heat Champion “inserts” but he said that it wasn’t the best idea and that our current heat form would work better. But the question is: will it? If we were to install doors, with the pyro glass, with built in dampers, could we burn with them closed and actually heat these two rooms? FYI the kitchen is not large, but the Great Room is. It has a two story ceiling on one side that slopes down away from the fireplace to single story on the other side. This floor of the house is approximately 1500 sq ft total, but the goal is really these two rooms. Does anyone have a set of these doors and have any experience or other input? Thank you.

 

[bholler]

Greetings,

We have a double sided or see through fireplace. We initially had our local dealer come to our home to investigate installing two wood burning inserts back to back in the space. We like being able to see the fire from either our kitchen or Great Room, but we’re also sick of being cold in the winter, and we actually want some heat. After measuring the fireplace (which has an arched opening), he said that our idea wouldn’t really work.

Essentially because of the size and shape of the opening, and given the depth of the fireplace, we would be looking at small inserts, and even then the fit would be tight. Knowing that aesthetics are also a concern of ours, he recommended Stoll Fireplace Doors with Pyro-ceramic glass. The cost is less than two inserts would be, but still not cheap at approximately $6,000. (It’s actually 5 something.)

However, I have been unable to find reviews online. I did ask about installing two of the Stoll Heat Champion “inserts” but he said that it wasn’t the best idea and that our current heat form would work better. But the question is: will it? If we were to install doors, with the pyro glass, with built in dampers, could we burn with them closed and actually heat these two rooms? FYI the kitchen is not large, but the Great Room is. It has a two story ceiling on one side that slopes down away from the fireplace to single story on the other side. This floor of the house is approximately 1500 sq ft total, but the goal is really these two rooms. Does anyone have a set of these doors and have any experience or other input? Thank you.

Don't waste your money on those doors. Why not just one insert?

 

[Tsiskwa]

Don't waste your money on those doors. Why not just one insert?

With a single insert, we’d lose the ability to have the fire from both rooms, which was a major selling point when we originally bought the house.

Even if we did decide that was worth it though, I’m not sure how the other side of the fireplace would be addressed. I believe someone had mentioned regular glass doors to close off the other side...? It would need to make aesthetic sense in tandem with the insert, but it’d be a tough sell.

 

[Ashful]

What is the opening size and overall depth? If a wood unit won’t work, and cosmetics or ambiance is a primary concern, have you considered any of the gas fired options? I think some of those are shallower. There are also partial in-out wood inserts, that don’t eat as much depth, if your opening is large enough.

Get the tape measure!

 

[Tsiskwa]

What is the opening size and overall depth? If a wood unit won’t work, and cosmetics or ambiance is a primary concern, have you considered any of the gas fired options? I think some of those are shallower. There are also partial in-out wood inserts, that don’t eat as much depth, if your opening is large enough.

Get the tape measure!

I have attached a picture showing the fireplace with measurements. Our house is a bit off the beaten path, so we like the idea of keeping a wood fire in case of power outages, etc. We do not have natural gas or propane at the house.

 

[Ashful]

There are others here who can give you better advice on specific models to fit that opening, but I can see the issue. In order to meet the hearth extension requirements (16" in front of stove), you need to slide it all the way back into the opening. That doesn't leave you with enough depth to get two of anything back-to-back in that 33 inches of overall depth. The elevated hearth make building a hearth extension out front more of a deal.

Me? I'd be looking for some cosmetically-acceptable way to dress up and close off the kitchen side of that unit, and slide an insert into the great room side.

 

[Tsiskwa]

I didn’t think to measure the hearth earlier, apologies. It extends 20.75” from the fireplace opening.

In any case, let’s say we were willing to entertain the idea of a single insert: how would that work with the arched opening? We had been considering models such as the Jøtul Rockland, Kennebec, or Winterport, etc. However, they all seem to have a rectangular front face.

Very much appreciate the input.

 

[Ashful]

I didn’t think to measure the hearth earlier, apologies. It extends 20.75” from the fireplace opening.

In any case, let’s say we were willing to entertain the idea of a single insert: how would that work with the arched opening? We had been considering models such as the Jøtul Rockland, Kennebec, or Winterport, etc. However, they all seem to have a rectangular front face.

Very much appreciate the input.

Interesting. So, if you went for the minimum 16", you could have two units each 21 inches deep. That might open up a few possibilities, assuming that 20.75 inch dimension is repeated on both sides.

 

[webby3650]

Why not leave the fireplace intact and install a freestanding stove to handle the heating? Use the fireplace when the temps outside aren’t so extreme.
The heat champion is a better heater than an open fire, but nothing like an insert. The heat champion price just jumped to about $5K! Not worth it! Doors with ceramic glass won’t generate much usable heat either..

 

[Tsiskwa]

Interesting. So, if you went for the minimum 16", you could have two units each 21 inches deep. That might open up a few possibilities, assuming that 20.75 inch dimension is repeated on both sides.

That dimension is repeated on both sides, yes. Is the 16” minimum you mention a universal code? We are in Maryland, so I’m not sure if that changes anything...? We’d be very interested in the options of back to back inserts. Does anyone know anything about dealing with the arched opening?

As to a freestanding stove, there are admittedly more details about the house that are relevant here. We have a hookup in our basement where the previous owners had a freestanding stove (same chimney), but they took the stove with them when they moved. The problem there is that it is really poorly located. It is in what we use as a storage room, and not where we actually want the heat, which is in the area with the fireplace. We’d eventually like to replace the stove, but it isn’t our first priority.

 

[webby3650]

A new class A chimney usually can be added without too much trouble. Can a stove be added in a different location on the main level?

 

[begreen]

There may be some options here. One is to install an insert without any surround. Another is to recess the insert slightly and have a custom metal trim insert made that follows the arch. On the backside you could install an expanded metal screen to dress the opening, yet emit heat from the back of the insert. Or if saving the arch is not all that important then a surround will cover it all. Take a look at the Enviro 1200 for instance.
https://enviro.com/products/catalogue/product/?prod=1200FPI

 

[webby3650]

Travis makes custom panels for their inserts.

 

[begreen]

I thought about the Lopi Freedom insert, but I think it's too tall. Maybe the Answer, Cape Cod?

 

[Tsiskwa]

I’ll have to go back to our dealer and see what he’s willing to do. It is a frustrating situation because I lack the expertise to install something myself. Thank you all for the input.

 

[webby3650]

I thought about the Lopi Freedom insert, but I think it's too tall. Maybe the Answer, Cape Cod?

The 1750 is going to be their shortest insert, a good portion of it sits on the hearth though, may not have enough hearth for it.

 

[SpaceBus]

What is your comfort level with power tools? I bet you could install it yourself, just not as quickly as the pros. The biggest difference between a professional tradesman and someone doing it at home is usually the speed at which you can complete the job. As long as you take your time, read the instructions very carefully and several times, and don't get complacent then you can do just as good a job, if not better, than any professional installer. You ultimately care about your own house more than anyone else. Renting tools and equipment is also cheaper than paying a professional in most cases. With a good furniture dolly and furniture sliders wood stoves aren't that bad to move either, as long as there are no steps involved. Usually the hardest part is getting it out of the vehicle that brought it to your house. Most equipment rental stores carry really long ramps that make unloading things easier if you don't have a fork lift or tractor.

 

[Tsiskwa]

I’m comfortable with power tools, but not with the chimney. Haha.

Going back to the original question, I wanted to ask about another option: I’ve read about fireplace “heaters” such as the Cozy Grate. If we wanted to try an option like that, is that possible with the double sided fireplace? Could we just install two of them in conjunction with the doors, one for each room? Thank you.

 

[SpaceBus]

Open fireplaces, even with doors and grates, just don't put much heat into a room and can actually make a house colder. The doors just prevent more of your heat from going up the chimney, not for letting the heat from the combustion into the room. Your fireplace is beautiful and I'm sure a focal point of your house, so I understand the hesitancy for DIY work or a wood stove. Your best bet for heat will be an EPA approved wood burning appliance in whatever form factor you like best. You mention a stove hookup in the basement, does it share a flue with your upstairs fireplace? If on a separate flue then put a decent sized stove that can heat your house easily in the basement and use the beautiful fireplace for its intended purpose; ambiance and aesthetic appeal. I don't think you will find a more cost effective solution that pleases everyone.

 

[Tsiskwa]

Open fireplaces, even with doors and grates, just don't put much heat into a room and can actually make a house colder. The doors just prevent more of your heat from going up the chimney, not for letting the heat from the combustion into the room. Your fireplace is beautiful and I'm sure a focal point of your house, so I understand the hesitancy for DIY work or a wood stove. Your best bet for heat will be an EPA approved wood burning appliance in whatever form factor you like best. You mention a stove hookup in the basement, does it share a flue with your upstairs fireplace? If on a separate flue then put a decent sized stove that can heat your house easily in the basement and use the beautiful fireplace for its intended purpose; ambiance and aesthetic appeal. I don't think you will find a more cost effective solution that pleases everyone.

Thank you. That was actually our original idea, but we weren’t sure the heat from the basement would actually make a noticeable difference on the main floor. There are no HVAC intakes in the basement, and no good places to cut a transfer grate, etc. Do you guys think a basement wood stove would actually contribute heat simply through the floor itself?

 

[SpaceBus]

Thank you. That was actually our original idea, but we weren’t sure the heat from the basement would actually make a noticeable difference on the main floor. There are no HVAC intakes in the basement, and no good places to cut a transfer grate, etc. Do you guys think a basement wood stove would actually contribute heat simply through the floor itself?

I have no experience personally with a basement setup, but there are ways. Several members of this forum have basement installs. A big difficulty in a basement install, that I've read about, is getting a good draft. Heat will rise, so even a doorway to the basement will release heat. There are also fire safe floor registers you could install to create a convective loop.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

The limiting factor on insert choice is going to be that 19.75 height at the sides.

The only option I can think of is the Lopi small hybrid fire...it is 19.625 inches high, a tight fit but it's not so wide so should be at the slightly higher part of the arch.

You could even go back to back with these units às they are only 14 inches deep. Also, for an upcharge they will do custom cut surrounds so you could get the black panel to match the arch.

https://www.lopistoves.com/product-detail.aspx?model=420#specs

 

[SpaceBus]

The limiting factor on insert choice is going to be that 19.75 height at the sides.

The only option I can think of is the Lopi small hybrid fire...it is 19.625 inches high, a tight fit but it's not so wide so should be at the slightly higher part of the arch.

You could even go back to back with these units às they are only 14 inches deep. Also, for an upcharge they will do custom cut surrounds so you could get the black panel to match the arch.

https://www.lopistoves.com/product-detail.aspx?model=420#specs

That's also a pretty neat idea.

 

[Tsiskwa]

The limiting factor on insert choice is going to be that 19.75 height at the sides.

The only option I can think of is the Lopi small hybrid fire...it is 19.625 inches high, a tight fit but it's not so wide so should be at the slightly higher part of the arch.

You could even go back to back with these units às they are only 14 inches deep. Also, for an upcharge they will do custom cut surrounds so you could get the black panel to match the arch.

https://www.lopistoves.com/product-detail.aspx?model=420#specs

Thank you! This sounds like it meets all of our goals! Just have to find a dealer / installer. I don’t think the dealer we’ve been working with carries this brand.

 

[webby3650]

The limiting factor on insert choice is going to be that 19.75 height at the sides.

The only option I can think of is the Lopi small hybrid fire...it is 19.625 inches high, a tight fit but it's not so wide so should be at the slightly higher part of the arch.

You could even go back to back with these units às they are only 14 inches deep. Also, for an upcharge they will do custom cut surrounds so you could get the black panel to match the arch.

https://www.lopistoves.com/product-detail.aspx?model=420#specs

The 1750 is the same height but had a useable firebox. The small hybrid fire is almost too small to be useful.