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Fireplace Replacement Advice

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Paul Cahoon, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. Paul Cahoon

    Paul Cahoon New Member

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    I have been heating my house with a factory built fireplace. Overall I probably depend on it about 80% or better. I rarely even turn my heat but I'm sure you can imagine the exorbitant amount of wood/work it takes to maintain a comfortable temperature using this.
    I am considering the purchase of a wood stove that would give me a decent upgrade from what I am currently using. I am planning to completely remove the existing fireplace but use the existing chimney with a stainless liner. I would lay my own stone rear shield and hearth.
    I have looked at a variety of used stoves and I feel that given my mild climate (NC) I do not need large stove but would like to be able to sustain a decent overnight burn that could easily be revived in the morning (as opposed to 3 - 4 times per night with my existing fireplace).
    I am open to suggestions.

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  2. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    You can't use the existing chimney/vent pipe unless you leave the fireplace where it is. You'll have to tear the ENTIRE system out & replace the existing pipe with Class A Chimney & connect that to your wood stove. The size of the area you want to heat (in sq. ft.), & whether or not it's a large open space or a lot of smaller rooms would be helpful in determining what size stove you need.
  3. Paul Cahoon

    Paul Cahoon New Member

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    I have about 1400 sqft to heat. The middle of the house is fairly open with no headers between living room, kitchen and dining room. Bedrooms 2 bedrooms off of kitchen area and the other 2 bedrooms are off of the other side of the living room.

    Why can't I reuse the existing chimney? I have a friend who has a larger mobile home than I do who took his fireplace out and I feel certain he is using the original chimney. He is running a Lily stove in WV with very good performance.
  4. chimneylinerjames

    chimneylinerjames Feeling the Heat

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    What you would want to do is leave the fireplace there, run the liner down the current chimney, and block off the face of the fireplace. You could do this with durarock or the like, and use cultured stone over it. The bottom of the liner would have a tee on it making the 90* turn out towards the room. The stove pipe will run thru the wall you built and hook up to the stove. You will need a hearth pad obviously built in front of the fireplace for the new stove.

    If you remove the current fireplace, you will be left with a framed out wood chase. You cant just have the chimney liner sitting there inside a wood chase. Leave the current fireplace there and install the stove in front of it.
  5. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    As far as the stove size goes, I'd say between 40K & 50K will be all you need, & that's the size I'd start looking at.

    As far as the venting goes, if you were putting an insert in that firebox, you would have to drop an insulated liner through the fireplace vent, which is not rated for woodstove temperatures & connect it to your insert. The entire system would be contained within a sealed chamber, top to bottom. Once you remove the fireplace, there is nothing to hold its venting in place. It is meant to sit on & be connected to that fireplace. In order to install a woodstove SAFELY, you need to use Class A chimney from the first wall or ceiling penetration, all the way to the cap.
  6. Paul Cahoon

    Paul Cahoon New Member

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    I see. That may change my plans because that is going to get into a lot more money than I thought.

    Do you have a particular brand recommendation to look at. I have looked at some Vermont Castings stoves but they get somewhat pricey unless I buy one used. Would some of the cheaper brands such as Drolet, Century, Vogelzang decent stoves? They don't look as nice as a VC or a Jotel but would they do the job?

    Also, what is the significance of the stove being mobile home approved?
  7. Paul Cahoon

    Paul Cahoon New Member

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    I thought about that originally but there didn't seem to be a lot of options in stoves that had a rear vent low enough to get into my current fireplace without having to drop down which I was thinking was not a good thing, especially since my chimney isn't all that tall. The top of my flue would have to be no higher than about 27" to get into the fireplace.
  8. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    You would not want to do this! This leaves no access to the Tee behind the stone. Meaning that you would have to disconnect the stove and move it out into the room in order to clean the flue properly.
  9. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Any of these stoves will be decent, make sure it is EPA certified.
    Your insurance company will want to see that it is MH approved. Look at the Drolet Celtic, my brother in law had one, it was nice!
  10. chimneylinerjames

    chimneylinerjames Feeling the Heat

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    It would leave an access like many stoves have when they are connected to a chimney with no clean out. You just have to take off the stove pipe and clean it out with a vacuum. Simple enough.
    Many chimneys do not have a clean-out door so this is what they have to do. Not the perfect setup but it works just fine. One negative is that the stove pipe generally has 2'-3' horizontal run right off of the stove. This may pose a problem if you have a very short vertical run. I have cleaned wood stoves with setups like this before and they didn't complain about draft.
  11. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    But why design a set up like this? There is typically not enough room between the flue collar and the fireplace face for a slip in the pipe, unless you put in a 3' flat run that you suggest. These set-ups exist because the homeowner had no other choice, as an alternative to oil or gas heat.
    In a MH, the flue will be too short for a rear exit to function properly. There will be smoke spillage.
  12. chimneylinerjames

    chimneylinerjames Feeling the Heat

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    I am just putting an option out there, I know it isn't ideal. I am suggesting this, as you said, "because the homeowner had no other choice". There are definitely better setups, but in this case, without extensive work, I am not sure it exist.
  13. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    The best thing to do is remove the entire fireplace and the flue. I have done it several times.
    I was able to use the same roof penetration and roof flashing. Since it's as mobile home, You will only need about 6' of class A pipe, that will be cheaper than an insulated liner with a Tee. This will allow you to use a steel top exit stove, and would be the most practical use of your money!
  14. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    I have also installed in the manner you cited & while it's not ideal, it'll give the OP more heat than he's getting now. He may have to see if what he's got for chimney venting is still available & if it is, he can add to the height for better performance. Another option is to use sheet aluminum that is split where it meets the horizontal run & is screwed right to the face of the ZC box. Remove a couple of zip screws & you have access to the tee...Painted black, it doesn't look awful bad, either...
  15. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    The height of the Class A will have to be determined by the installation manual. Stating that 6' is good enough without first looking at the job & knowing what stove is going in, may not be correct.
  16. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Of course, I was giving him an idea.
    6' of chimney and 6' of connector pipe is a good estimate for an MH, which also meets the requirements for most small stoves.
  17. Paul Cahoon

    Paul Cahoon New Member

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    I think my current chimney extends a good 5 - 6 feet above the roof. I am thinking that 9' of class A chimney will probably handle it depending on the length of the stove pipe. I didn't think about reusing the roof flashing. Could I use my existing rain cap.? It looks like the ones I have seen sold with class A chimneys.
    Without the roof flashing and the rain cap I probably won't have to spend much more than the liner and tee would cost anyway.
    That would actually be my preference anyway as it would allow me to keep the stove more out of the way. My current hearth is raised and I would just assume put in a pad that is flush with my floor rather than extending the current one.
  18. Paul Cahoon

    Paul Cahoon New Member

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    Do I have to be a certain distance from the ceiling with my stove pipe?
  19. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    With your Class A chimney, the ceiling support box should be a minimum of 3" below ceiling height (this figure may vary from one manufacturer to another).. If you do not have a horizontal run, you shouldn't have to worry about clearances ABOVE the connector pipe. What you WILL have to take into consideration is that if you are intending to rip out the ZC box & leave some of the framing, you are now installing in an alcove & there are certain stoves that cannot be installed like this. You really need to figure out what size stove will work for you - talk to some hearth shops... Once you figure out what size, you can then find ones that will do what you want, but you will have to read the nuances of each install so that you do the install safely.
  20. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    You will use a ceiling support box for the class a chimney. The instructions will say how far below the ceiling the box needs to extend. It's usually a few inches below the finished ceiling. You will need to use double wall stove pipe, this is part of the requirement in mobile home install.
    DAKSY likes this.
  21. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    Along with what Webby3650 said, there are other considerations in mobile home installs. Outside Air Kit (OAK) is almost ALWAYS required & the stove needs to have the ability to be bolted to the floor....
  22. Paul Cahoon

    Paul Cahoon New Member

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    After some more research I think I have decided on the Drolet Myriad from Northern Tools. I like the burn times in comparison to some of the smaller stoves. It is approved for mobile homes. It calls for a 12' chimney. Does that start at the stove collar and include the stove pipe? Can I run stove pipe all the way to the ceiling support box?
  23. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Stove pipe goes from the stove to the chimney support box. From there it must remain class A chimney, all the way to the cap.
  24. Paul Cahoon

    Paul Cahoon New Member

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    So does the 12' chimney required include the length of the stove pipe?
  25. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Yes, usually it's measured from the floor of the stove.

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