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First cut with non saftey chain..........

Post in 'The Gear' started by Jake, Apr 23, 2008.

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  1. Jake

    Jake Member

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    Its a whole new ball game. I got a loop of stihl rm for my 026 (never cut with it. )

    I've used a 021 for years and most recently a ms390 (both with sagtey chain)

    What a difference!!

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  2. kevin j

    kevin j Minister of Fire

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    I know, goose and eric and about 90% of the AS posters are strong for non safety chain. I am an advocate of safety chain for homeowner users, and use it myself maybe half situations. From what I have seen and tested, the difference is there but maybe 10-20%. Tooth design makes a much larger difference, especially in softwood, which I very rarely see around here. Many AS are softwood loggers, who need boring ability also. Makes perfect sense, just isn't the world I work in.

    Not bashing the choice, lets not start the safety debate again, but my point for this post is more to illustrate 'diagnostic' or 'testing' practice. If I understand correctly, the comparison is not on the same saw, same bar, same tooth design. I may have misinterpreted post, but sounded like the first time the 026 was run also. I've not used an 021, but have many years with the 026's, and comparing a 35cc with high speed 50 cc limber is way different animal. Was the new chain more squared chisel than the old? Was the old chain fresh ground or worn? Just a fresh chain out of the box would make a big difference in cutting. Too many variables to make conclusions. If doing comparisons of chain, bar, oil, fuel mix, saw brands, etc etc as many variables as possible need to be eliminated.

    Part of my job is lot of phone support of big ( 5000 hp) railroad maintenance machinery, and it is very tough to diagnose or make valid conclusions when there were many changes or variables.

    So that's my main reason for writing this. Not S/NS, and again you may come to same conclusion, but I think it would be interesting to have back to back with chain change only, and the same tooth design. Multiple cuts in same log at same day, etc. etc. Just a good habit and mindset to get into.

    k
  3. DiscoInferno

    DiscoInferno Minister of Fire

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    I think it really depends on the type of safety chain. I've used both Oregon 73LG ("pro") and 73VX (low kickback) on the same saw, and they cut the same as best I can tell. Oregon claims that the 73VX is equal to or better than it's own equivalent non-kickback chain. The VX doesn't have those bumper links between teeth like some, just a different raker design, so that might be the difference. Also, both are full-chisel, so it's a fair comparison there.
  4. Jake

    Jake Member

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    the 021 usually has a sharp chain, and the 390 wears a sharp one as well.

    here's whats on the 021 OILOMATIC® STIHL PICCO™ Micro™ Comfort 3 (PMC3
  5. Eric Johnson

    Eric Johnson Mod Emeritus

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    I think most chain these days is pretty safe, at least compared to 20 or 30 years ago. The main reason for using chipper (the old "safety") chain is that the cutting edge is rounded and therefore less prone to getting dull if dinged. I'm not even sure you can buy chipper chain anymore, but I used to use it when cutting log-length firewood, since it is typically dragged through the woods with a skidder, and therefore contains rocks and dirt in the bark. You get more mileage out of chipper chain under those conditions, than you would with full chisel.

    If you're skilled enough to keep your chain out of the dirt, then full chisel is faster and perfectly safe, IMO. If not, then use something less prone to dulling. It may seem counterintuitive, but trying to cut with a dull chain is a lot more dangerous than cutting with a sharp one.
  6. kevin j

    kevin j Minister of Fire

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    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/16727/P15/


    all have depth gauges/rakers, it controls the depth of cut. without rakers it would nose dive into the wood and stall.
    Reeuced kickback/safety chains have a bumper part that swings out when bending around the bar tip to reduce snagging on the space between cutters.
    Snagging on top or bottom of bar creates pullin or pushback, but snagging at end of bar is kicking bar upward, mild or violently.
  7. woodconvert

    woodconvert Minister of Fire

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    Gotta gotta gotta keep chisel chain away from the dirt. Even just kissing the dirt will wipe some corners.

    Also, I use both a stock stihl chisel chain on my 046 and one where i've filed the rakers and i've cut a lot of wood with both...the only time i've had "kickback" is if I get the nose of the bar into the wood (i'm sure either type chain would give the same result).
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