First time wood burner need some advice

[bryan]

First I'd like to say thank you for having this site, what a enormous wealth of information. I've tried my best to understand everything, but just wanted to repeat what I think I've learned to make sure I have it straight and get some clarification

Situation: Bought a house in northern DE 5ish years ago that had a fireplace and a chimney that had been removed below the roof line. We are finally refinishing the basement room that housed the fireplace and am trying to determine how best on a budget (3.5-4K) to make it useful. Trying to make the room a family room and not trying to heat the house with the fireplace rather use it to make the room comfortable and save what I can on natural gas by burning wood on the side (plenty of people around here having trees cut down and giving away wood). I haven't burned wood before, but not a stranger to splitting it.

Anyhow I was thinking a liner w/cement/vermiculite in what is left of the chimney and then a class A above the roof line, but the chimney comes out a lower roof line (garage) and there is going to about about 12' of exposed Class A that will show from the front of the house. I wouldn't mind, but someday we'll likely try to sell so we'll pay a bit more to have it masonry instead. One question I have is whether there is an insulation difference between the double wall class A and a masonry w/vermiculite?

To make the budget work and given I don't want to heat the house I plan on getting an Englander 17 or an Drolet pyropak. Does that seem reasonable? My concern with that is given its a two story colonial house and the fireplace is in the basement its going to be about 25' worth of chimney. Does having a small fire and the bottom of such a tall chimney an issue? That might be a dumb question but I'm concerned about the heat from a small stove not being enough to keep the gases hot enough to the top.

 

[Defiant]

This is very doable, Post up some pics (we love pics) and help will be on it's way

 

[bryan]

Here is a pict of the fireplace

http://flic.kr/p/cQBA1u

and of the house itself (pict is from storm a couple years back, house is now sided in brown) I've drawn in where the chimney would come out of the house.

http://flic.kr/p/cQBDPE


I can't quite figure out how to get the images to appear in the text here. My apologies.

 

[Dix]

Hi Bryan, welcome to the forums !!

The slider, the part near the fireplace... is that the stationary part of the door?

Nice looking FP, BTW !

 

[bryan]

The slider, the part near the fireplace... is that the stationary part of the door?

Nice looking FP, BTW !

yes that is the stationary part, and as for the fireplace, my wife hates the color. looks a bit more pink in person. She wants to paint/stain the brick if possible. Depends on how it looks with a the sand colored ceramic tile and I haven't installed yet (waiting for the chimney work to be done first)

 

[Dix]

You can always paint the FP, or cover with tile/stone. Mine is covered with tile for the PE.

How's the house layout for heat to rise? You might have more of a windfall here than you think.

 

[Defiant]

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ANCHOR PLATE​

Anchor plates are used when you want to use a class A chimney on a fireplace instead of air-cooled pipe or to convert from a masonry chimney to a class A chimney. For instance, your masonry chimney is badly deteriorated above the roof but solid inside the house envelope. Rather than rebuild the expensive masonry chimney, convert to class A inside the attic with this anchor plate. See also our TRANSITION ANCHOR PLATE to convert a masonry chimney while relining the remaining masonry chimney.

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Similar to our standard anchor plate above, the TRANSITION ANCHOR PLATE is designed to convert a masonry chimney liner repair/upgrade to class A.

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[bryan]

Guess I should have clarified that I was going to have a contractor do this. Is it best to go with someone certified by CSIA (or equivalent) or can your average chimney person do this?

As for floor plan the fireplace is on the outside corner of the house which has a very open (two person wide) central stairway all the way up the 2nd floor. Hoping it can help keep the bedrooms upstairs a bit warmer on cold nights as the furnace struggles to keep rooms furthest from it warm. No combination of damper control has solved that problem yet.

 

[DAKSY]

First I'd like to say thank you for having this site, what a enormous wealth of information. I've tried my best to understand everything, but just wanted to repeat what I think I've learned to make sure I have it straight and get some clarification


To make the budget work and given I don't want to heat the house I plan on getting an Englander 17 or an Drolet pyropak. Does that seem reasonable? My concern with that is given its a two story colonial house and the fireplace is in the basement its going to be about 25' worth of chimney. Does having a small fire and the bottom of such a tall chimney an issue? That might be a dumb question but I'm concerned about the heat from a small stove not being enough to keep the gases hot enough to the top.

While you may have an problem with drafting a wood-burning unit located in your basement, the height of the chimney will probably NOT be an issue. What MAY be an issue is trying to get the draft to "take off" from a cold start-up. Your basement is gonna below the negative pressure plane of your house & you may have smoke reversing into your home as the flow into the larger space is less restricted than into your chimney. You may have to open a window or door on that level in order to get the chimney to draft adequately. Once it's going strong, there probaly won't be an issue of back-puffing, but start-up could be problematic. Some folks with this set up will "cheat" & warm the chimney with a butane blowtorch, but cracking open a door or window for 5 minutes will work just as well...

 

[Jags]

And look at bigger stoves. All I can say to this is "trust me". Even the Englander 13nc will be a good step up for small coin. The stoves you are looking at are tiny. I think you will find that you will "push" these stoves to the edge to have much in the way of noticeable heat output and "any" longevity. Just one dudes opinion.

 

[begreen]

Agreed, the concerns about a small stove heating the house are realistic. The other problem is that you will be stoking it every few hours and pushing it for all it's worth. If the basement is uninsulated, this could be a frustrating, losing battle. Raw basement walls will soak up 25-35% of the heat generated by the stove. For that reason, you might consider intercepting the chimney on the main floor and putting the stove there. If you chose that route, the basement fireplace opening would need to be sealed tight, though I'd make it so that it has a sealed cleanout door.

If the basement is the only choice, how is the heat going to get upstairs? Is there a large, open stairway adjacent to the fireplace area?

 

[bryan]

Agreed, the concerns about a small stove heating the house are realistic. The other problem is that you will be stoking it every few hours and pushing it for all it's worth. If the basement is uninsulated, this could be a frustrating, losing battle. Raw basement walls will soak up 25-35% of the heat generated by the stove. For that reason, you might consider intercepting the chimney on the main floor and putting the stove there. If you chose that route, the basement fireplace opening would need to be sealed tight, though I'd make it so that it has a sealed cleanout door.

If the basement is the only choice, how is the heat going to get upstairs? Is there a large, open stairway adjacent to the fireplace area?

There is a large open stairway in the hallway connected to the room that extends all the way upstairs, but heating the entire house is not the goal. Rather to make the basement comfortable to be used in the winter as a family room without having to use/install baseboard heaters. Any other benefit such as making the upstairs a bit warmer is just icing on the cake. Before this remodel the walls were finished, but uninsulated. The walls in that basement room now have R10 worth of foam again the wall + full framed wall and drywall. (Concerned about moisture so didn't use insulation in cavity) Access to the unfinished portion of the basement will be closed though if it can soak up that much heat I'll be sure to get much of it insulated before it gets cold again.

As for intercepting the chimney higher up is not really option as the main floor is the kitchen on one side and a recently remodeled 3 season room on the other which we currently don't attempt to keep warm in the winter. We don't need the space so no point in trying to keep it heated with all of the windows in it.

Previous owners didn't not actually seal the chimney when it was removed below the roof-line so even with damper of the fireplace closed you could still feel a down draft. So the comment about starting a draft is well noted.

My hope is to prove the usefulness of wood stove to my wife (a skeptic and the source of budgetary pressure) and then lobby for a larger unit in the years to come.

Thank you for all the comments.

 

[Jags]

and then lobby for a larger unit in the years to come.

Flip side: your wife sees how much of a PIA it is to keep a tiny stove with its limited heating capability going and nixes anything "wood".

My prediction: 2 weeks after the first fire you will be saying to yourself "man, I wished I would have listened to the goofballs on that wood burning website thingy."

 

[begreen]

Before making any recommendations, I have a couple more questions: How large is the family room area in the basement? Are you intending to tie in above the fireplace damper by a hole in the face of the fireplace chimney or under the fireplace lintel?

 

[bryan]

Before making any recommendations, I have a couple more questions: How large is the family room area in the basement? Are you intending to tie in above the fireplace damper by a hole in the face of the fireplace chimney or under the fireplace lintel?

The room is 20' x 13' and the plan was to go in under the lintel which limits the height of the stove to about 27" unless I take out the bottom two rows of bricks which might be necessary to fit even the smallest stove in.

Jags: I guess you are saying spending an extra $50 on this might save me quite a headache?

http://www.amfmenergy.com/50tnc13----epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1850131801.html

 

[begreen]

I would not take out the top two courses of brick. They usually have a metal lintel frame supporting them. It sounds like you are going to be sticking to a rear exit stove then. The Pyropak and 17-VL are top exit. That is unless the chimney liner can exit above the damper.

If you can post a picture of the fireplace we can give better guidance and spot other issues and options. What is the floor covering of the family room?

 

[Jags]

When compared to the other two stoves...absolutely.

 

[begreen]

Same issue with the 13NC, it's 26" high and that is before an elbow, which is not recommended to be put directly on top exit stoves.

It sounds like an insert will be the most straight-forward to install. Here is the equivalent Englander in insert form:

http://www.overstockstoves.com/50tnc13i--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1550131500.html

 

[bryan]

I would not take out the top two courses of brick. They usually have a metal lintel frame supporting them. It sounds like you are going to be sticking to a rear exit stove then. The Pyropak and 17-VL are top exit. That is unless the chimney liner can exit above the damper.

If you can post a picture of the fireplace we can give better guidance and spot other issues and options. What is the floor covering of the family room?

A pict of the fireplace: http://flic.kr/p/cQBA1u

by bottom two rows I mean the bottom two rows of the firebox. The floor is going to be finished in ceramic tile, but I'm waiting to have this chimney work down before I lay the floor down so things can be modified there still.

 

[Jags]

That might be a very good call, BG.

 

[begreen]

OK, thanks for the pic and clarification, that really helps. By removing the lower course of brick you should be able to work this out. The 13NC would be a good choice, be sure it has a blower.

http://www.overstockstoves.com/50epacenowos.html

After these fireplace mods, it will no longer be viable as a fireplace (not that it was when you got the place). Technically there is supposed to be a metal plaque in the fireplace saying that it can no longer be used as a fireplace. And it is only suitable for a direct connect vented stove.