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FISHER INSERT HELP

Post in 'Fisher Stove Information, Parts, History and More' started by Ryan2c, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. Ryan2c

    Ryan2c New Member

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    N.E. PA
    I had a fisher insert installed in Aug. with a 7 in. stainless steel liner. I have it on the bottom floor of a 1900 sq ft split level and trying to heat the whole house and its not working to well. I put a door frame fan up but not doing to much to help. I've been looking for a blower for 2 months, very hard to find!!!! Not sure why its not working, I know what these stoves are capable of. Any tips or ideas,and will a blower help me out. And does any one know where I can find a blower. Oh yea I'm burning oak cherry and ash.

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  2. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    How hot are you running the stove?

    Without a blower, a lot of your heat is going to be trapped around the insert. Have you tried a fan aimed at the insert blowing cold air towards it? (don't aim it so it blows into the draft knobs tho!)

    Also, did you install a block off plate around that liner so that heat isn't running up your chimney next to the liner?

    Welcome to the site!

    pen
  3. Ryan2c

    Ryan2c New Member

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    I've been running it with the damper closed and vents opened about 2 - 3 turns. And I'm not familiar with a block off plate. I tried a fan but its hitting the front of the stove. Any ideas on where I can find a blower? Thanks for the info, this site is awesome!!
  4. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    If things don't look too terrible w/out it, have you considered (or are you able to) remove the surround that is on the stove? That should let more air into the room.

    A block off plate is a seal around the liner that keeps air from running up the chimney next to the liner. Some folks simply buy some roxul (mineral wool insulation) from lowes or online and stuff it between the fireplace damper and the liner. Others do that and also use sheet metal (or just sheet metal) and fab up a plate to wrap that area to keep hot air from going up.

    Wish I had a source for you for a blower. There are a few factory units out there, but they are scarce and quite honestly old. If you are creative, you could buy an aftermarket blower, or a blower for another stove, and make up a mount for it.

    pen
  5. Ryan2c

    Ryan2c New Member

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    Thanks pen, I will look into a block off plate and keep searching for a blower. My dad has a fire boss insert with a blower maybe I can fit it to my fisher I will take a look this wkend.
  6. coaly

    coaly Fisher Moderator Staff Member

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    NE PA
    Are you sure you have a full size Insert, and not a Honey Bear? (much smaller) The manual gives quite a few good installed diagrams and cut away views. To attach a liner, it would require a boot at the stove connection. If not done properly, that could be an air leak into the chimney (liner) killing draft through the fire. The original install was to seal the face plate to the hearth front, to be sure all rising air going up the flue pulls ALL air through the stove, not around it. This again would be a huge air leak into the chimney quenching the heated rising air, killing draft and reducing air through fire. Make sure there are no holes to leak air in, around the damper rod. This is where a boot would mount to the stove top to connect a liner. They didn't have one originally, so that would be added or made by the installer.

    Is the face plate (the plate that blocks off space between Insert and fireplace face) slotted for fans on each side? Some are, some aren't. They all have a slot under the firebox across the bottom for a bottom fan mount. That is trickier to fabricate ductwork to than the type that blows in the sides at the slots along the firbox sides.

    Is the Insert coming up to temp? 2 to 3 turns is a lot of air. Normally that is how much you need to start a fire, then turn them down to 1 turn before they drive you out. 1/2 turn is usually enough overnight.

    Here's a few blower pics for ideas; The face mounted blow through 3 vertical slots right next to the stove sidewall and out the top. These are all original accessory equipment (variable speed) except the homemade right lower picture of the Polar Bear. This is a much smaller Insert the same size of the Honey Bear Insert, but made for zero clearance fireplaces.

    Insert hand painted doors w blower 2.jpg Insert hand painted doors w blower 7.jpg Insert w blower front.jpg Insert w blower 3.jpg Insert w bottom blower 2.jpg Polar Bear for sale 850.jpg

    Woodman's has a couple dual cage fans for the long narrow bottom inlet, and a few surface mount cetrifugal blowers for face mount. (half the price of the big one across bottom - but half the air cfm as well) Make sure you get a speed control since most fans are loud with full voltage, and most fires only require about half speed making them much quieter.
  7. Ryan2c

    Ryan2c New Member

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    My stove looks exactly like the one in the pics. I did have a small piece broken on the collar on top where the boot fit over for the liner but it was covered by the boot. I only have channels on the top and bottom. How do I check if I'm leaking air? Do you also mean I shouldnt have air leaking in and around the front plates that surround the stove? If I do how would I solve the problem? Sorry kind of confused. And what blower would you recommend? Thanks for the help
  8. coaly

    coaly Fisher Moderator Staff Member

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    There is no collar on top of the Insert. Picture below;

    Insert w bottom blower 5.jpg

    You have an air space on the sides of the firebox, just like the bottom, it's just not open in the front anywhere to blow air in. The faceplate goes up against the opening. The above picture shows the larger box around the internal firebox in the rear that sits in the hearth. OPening up slots next to the firebox allows a surface mounted fan to blow into the sides.

    Don't know of a way to make sure there are no air leaks into flue other than a smoke bomb in the stove (cold) chimney capped, and check with flashlight for smoke at a joint. Maybe someone else knows the right way, if there is one.

    The front hearth block off plate should have a little insulation with no paper backing between the plate and hearth face lie a gasket to prevent inside air from leaking up around the flue liner. This is what Pen was referring to.

    My reference to the way they were intended to be installed with no liner may have you confused. With no liner, the rising gasses simply exit the stove, and rise through the fireplace smoke chamber and past the fireplace damper and up the chimney like a fire in the hearth without an Insert. In this case, any air leakage between the faceplate and hearth face results in inside air being pulled AROUND the Insert and not THROUGH the Insert (not through the air intake and through the stove). This indoor cooler air chills the hot rising gasses killing the draft. Hence, poor operating stove when not sealed to the hearth face. You get the same result if you have an air leak into the flue liner. Clear as mud?

    Woodman's numbers for bottom air inlet;
    212 CFM Model A212 centrifugal blower with inline speed control ILS-3-8
    There is also temp switch available to turn on blower at 205* f and off at 175* f. # BSK (The thermo switch is a snap disc type that needs to be behind the faceplate above the Insert. You can fine tune it by adjusting farther away from Insert top)

    Your installation of how much hearth floor sticks out like a shelf in front of Insert depends on length of single piece of thin duct from blower housing to space under Insert.

    Also available at Amazon; http://www.amazon.com/Centrifugal-Blower-Volts-Fasco-A212/dp/B000BUGFKS Speed control on same page.
  9. Tendencies

    Tendencies Member

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    Loc:
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    I made a collar out of 1 inch square tubing and drilled same diameter hole thru the sides as the damper, firmly cemented it to the top of the stove and same with flex pipe adapter to the frame.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    T
  10. Dave404

    Dave404 New Member

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    18
    I have the same fan and stove as in the middle pic on the bottom , Coaly, is this fan one of the originals ? It has the same variable knob(fast-slow) but dont kick on and off. I'm using the stove as a stand alone and not using the surround panels.
    I'm having trouble finding the correct starter pipe from the stove flue.
    The stove flue size is 7 5/8" inside diameter, which an 8" crimped end is too big to go down in.
    I don't know if a special adapter is needed or made for it, or if i will need to modify somehow.
    Please instruct me here. Thanks
  11. coaly

    coaly Fisher Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, all the black blowers in those pictures were made for Fisher.

    They were not designed to connect a pipe, they were designed to sit in the fireplace and vent directly up the existing flue.

    Search "insert boot" for many threads on connecting an Insert to a chimney connector pipe or flexable liner. (As shown in post #9 above)
  12. Dave404

    Dave404 New Member

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    Thanks coaly, mine dont kick on-off. unless its faulty. if it was temp controlled it shouldnt come on until so warm but it turns on soon as i turn it on at knob.
    im just getting this Fisher hooked up, i think the slick end of an 8" connector may go over the flue but the flange end of 8" black pipe surely wont go down in.
    I think the papa bears are the same on the 6" flue , as i got one in my garage. And had to start out with a slip connector. Fisher stove flues are odd size to me.
    Can u verify if im correct ?
  13. coaly

    coaly Fisher Moderator Staff Member

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    The blower switch is a manual variable speed switch, not temperature controlled.

    Pertaining to freestanding stoves;
    When licensees received their drawings for the stoves, the flue material required was 6" OD X 12 Ga. X 5" (long) pipe. Desinated as part # 111 BS. (Bear Stove) The wall thickness is close to 1/8" and the inside of this pipe (ID) is 5 3/4". With a hand crimper, you "over-crimp" the "male down" end to fit inside the flue outlet. Any condensation formed inside the flue will run back into the stove to be consumed.

    AFTER 1980, for the UL listed stoves, 6" ID pipe with 1/4" wall thickness was used. (Measures 6 1/2" OD) Connector pipe with no crimp fits inside, so removing the factory crimp allows a tighter fit inside the flue collar.

    There are instances where you will find the thicker wall 6" ID on an older stove. If the round hole cut out in the back was poorly cut, or out of round, it could be trued up to a 6 1/2" opening and the larger OD pipe was installed to be able to use the back piece.
  14. hilbiliarkiboi

    hilbiliarkiboi Member

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    I believe most using fisher inserts as freestanding have used a fabricated collar to 'firm up' the connection of the pipe to the "insert".
    Some cobble it, others purchase a "boot" with a flanged rectangular opening on the stove side (that would be knotched for dampner rod) transitioning to ur 8" pipe crimp. Use self tapping screws to attach flange to stove and fasten pipe to boot
  15. scott grasmick

    scott grasmick New Member

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    Delta, Pennsylvania
    Can anyone tell me what size liner is needed for the above fisher insert (the bigger one that has a nearly 30" deep firebox) Can I use 6" or is 8" needed?
  16. coaly

    coaly Fisher Moderator Staff Member

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    It should be 8. You "can" use 6, but not legally. All insulated and tall may be OK. Performance depends on chimney ;
    1.) If it will draw enough to avoid smoke roll in when doors are open.
    2.) Expect it to be sluggish like an exhaust restricted engine
    3.) May smoke inside with open doors and screen in place.

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