Frankenstein Pellet stove?

Hey'

What about taking good features from one stove and adding them to another stove to create a modified mixed breed superior to either stove? What do you think Doctor?

Here is an example:

Suppose you pick up an older Enviro EF-2i The old Dial-A-Fire is good unless you want it on a nice T-Stat. However the Air Intake rod is a little fussy too.

So you get a nice new single auger Englander 25-EP Digital Control Panel for approx $200 and all you have to do is put those quick connect crimp on connectors on the EF-2 wires and clip them into the new control panel and bingo bango a nice easy touch control panel. Then just take off the J18 jumper and add your T-Stat

Sure the BTU range is a little less than the 34k BTU of the EF-2i but you will not over fire the stove, you can set the air intake wide open and have a great running stove that puts out some real good heat?

25-EP specs
 Heat Output Range** ............................................ 10,700 BTU/hr – 25,100 BTU/hr
 Approximate Pellet Burn Rate** ............................................... 1.6 lb/hr – 3.9 lb/hr

Are you retired?

Hi Smoke

No, I am not kidding. My friend has an EF-2i and would really like to control when the stove goes on and off. There is a thermostat module for approx $200 that can be added on. However other members of the forum say that module is unreliable and does not always work! Another member got the upgraded Enviro Digital Control Panel and new wire harness and popped it right in for approx $400 smakers! Well that is kinda steep so I thought the $200 dollar ESW digital control panel that controls the burn air flow also is not only better but cheaper!. The best part is that the back has male quick disconnect clips and most of the existing components would clip in. easy Peasy. Better and Cheaper!

Actually not quite so simple since the Englander's use a Thermal Sensor attached to the back of the fire box to sense the fire. So one could be easily added to the Enviro for
See http://www.englanderstoves.com/manuals/PUCBHS_thermalsensor.pdf

Technically you'll void the UL listing. Don't want to be a party pooper, But it must be talked about. Probably best to keep the controller and the stove with the same brand names if your gonna play.

If you try it? I'd be curious on your experiment! One tip is controller and matching wiring harness. Makes it a whole lot easier. The connectors are a bit tough to find in rural area's.

Too late.

I highly doubt that the EP is only rated for 25,000 BTU's????

4 lbs an hr is 32,000 BTU's using an average pellet. So somehow those #'s are not matching up??

I wouldnt even think of doing that anyways. For $900 you can have a new (refurb) PAH w/ 120 lb hopper and also On/Off and Hi/Low. No brainer.

Good Point Dexter

But that makes it very compatible since the Enviro is a 34k BTU stove.

The PAH is not the same size or as attractive as the Enviro. It would not fit in my friend's small space. So my friend may want to upgrade the control panel.

BTW the 25-PDV sold tonight so I need another project! LOL

Hoping Mike Holton sees this. As I would think that the EP is more than 32,000 BTU's?? Im guessing its somewhere in the neighborhood of 40,000-48,000.

As for the control panel? I would still stick with Enviro's replacement. The Blower motors may be different and the current sent may not be the same. Which in turn, may fry them? I'm not an electrical engineer, so I dont know what would really happen.. But my guess is the motors are different. (Amps, HP, possibly RPM?) How much would it matter? I dont know.

But to spend $200 on a board that "might" work and still have to buy the $400 board? Or just spend the money on a $400 board right off the rip. Or buy a used stove on Craiglist. Always a good fixer upper out there

Folks you see what happens when the old folks get to playing with their tinker toy sets.

Frankenstoves.

Please show some compassion for the wayward electrical engineer as the rest of the gang tries to get common sense to prevail here (In other words don't try this at home, it could get very messy.).

Hello

All the stoves have 120 VAC motors and most control boards have a 5 amp 125 VAC fuse, so there would be no damage because the current draw is within limits. The compatibility would be the size of the stove. Travis and Englander both have different program modes, one for the small stove and one for the large stove so they can use the same control board. The program modes adjust the auger duration for the lbs/hr that the stoves can handle without over firing. There may be different components however when going from one brand stove to another so simple modifications might have to be made, not rocket science. Anyway, I am not planning this right now, just trying to think of ways to add value to older stoves for resale. The market shows a need for stoves that are more up to date, however the cost of updating to a digital board does not always seem to increase the resale by enough unless it can be done cheaply. So I am just examining these alternatives to make money.
I also know of someone that took a very old Jamestown J2000 and put in a newer Jamestown digital board. It really brought the stove up to par and easier to re-sell.

Thanks

Dexter
I got those 25-EP specs right from the 25-EP manual, that stove is a smaller stove. It seems that Englander sells many stoves in that range so that is where they are investing.

Don, Not all stoves have 120V motors. Some do have DC motors. These stoves where made for easy DC back-up. FYI (too many brews or I'd name a few of them).

My point exactly, If you plan to resell? Stick with the same brand controller. Hard to explain and possibly hard to sell a mixed match hodge podge(if you know what I mean).

I'm with bear, Folks don't try this at home.

You might want to consider the legal liability aspect also. As Jtakeman mentioned above, you will void any UL listing on any altered stove and if you're reselling the stove to another owner, that opens up a whole possible world of legal doo doo for you down the line.
You may get the stove up and running with retrofitted parts, but you don't know what the next owner will do with it and if anything happens, you may end up in a legal situation that might financially wipe you out. Just my 2 cents and something to consider...

Yes, I agree that a frankenstein stove would not sell and could not be supported. Maybe if I get a chance to build one in my basement I would@! LOL

im not so sure its gonna be as easy as you may think. the sensor is just that , the prom takes the data from the sensor and decides what to do based on temp at the sensor. the other unit probably uses archaic snap disks and such to control POF high and low limits air on etc. they would not necessarily need to be eliminated in some cases but high and low limits may need to be in order to prevent the stove from tripping somthing due to snapdisk without the ESW board knowing it did it. heat output at the connector for the flue may be different as well and the prom is not somthing that can be recalibrated at the user level.

as for the BTU rating on the EP its based on OUTPUT not input , so you figure 4 lbs /hr gives you 32K @ 8K/lb this is "input" not output so the stats on the tag are actual "btu's to the room"

Gonna be a long summer!

Well folks you can now see what can go wrong with something as simple as a brain transplant in a bog standard pellet eater. Thanks for dropping by Mike. Now BrotherBart you already know that cord word ain't to be used in a pellet eater.

Eatonpcat, it sure can be.

Folks while designing your very own Frankenstoves, remember that these pellet eaters while being simple air pumps are a bit more complicated than one might think.

We don't need anyone burning their place down or doing themselves in. In a fireproof lab play to your heart's content but not in a house or anyplace where other people are.

Thanks Mike

I knew your control board is really very good and that explains why I did not see any snap disks in the stove! Maybe if I am lucky I can get a 25-EP sometime, I am sure it is an excellent stove!

I sure hope so!

Now if we can actually get spring to arrive?

Something your gonna play with is cool, I have been playing with a friends breckwell and the adjustable enviro board. But it doesn't have feed trim. So he wants a Napoleon NPS45 board that he can tweak. Its on order and I'll keep you posted!

It sounds like an interesting project. But have you considered the insurance ramifications? Recently sitting with my agent over a couple of Long Trails and got to talking about pellet stoves. (I might have made another convert) He had no problems with a pellet stove as long as it was a maunfacturer's standard unit and installed according to instructions. Not saying there would be an issue with a modified stove, BUT if there was ever any other problem, insurance companies are always looking for reasons not to pay out.
Just my 2 cents.

Hi Jay
What Model is your friends Breckwell? Is it a Big E?

Yes, Its a bigE, If it works another wants one for his P23 insert. What this will give them besides the feed and combustion trim is a stove that will not need damper adjustments between heat settings.

Both also have issues when running hi/lo. They experiance burnout on low due to the damper being set for the higher heat level. So far the enviro board has that issue licked, But only offers a feed trim adjustment for the lowest heat level.

Both stoves will be converted back to stock breckwell compliance if sold. Again, DON'T try this at home!

Very interesting Jay, I understand that Hi/Lo does not work well if you have to change the Damper setting each time!

BTW I got a big surprise from one of my neighbors today. He knew I was fixing stoves and a guy at his work that had extra parts. So he just handed me a bag of parts that includes an Englander Control panel with the thermal sensor for the exhaust plenum!