Free craft stove vs new EPA stove

[NCredneck]

Long time lurker, 1st time poster. I have been considering heating with wood quite a while. My reasons would mainly be to save money and not feel as bad about keeping it a tad warmer in the house during winter. I have looked at so many different options ie. OWB ( if I can find a good used one still might go this route but a new one will take to long for payback IMO) I have looked at indoor gassifer in my unfinished basement attached to insulated ductwork. ( This is attractive because my basement is walkin and even has a garage door so it would be easy to bring anything in including water storage. etc. but it also gets pretty expensive) I have recently been considering putting an insert into an existing fireplace upstairs (have another fireplace in the unfinished basement but understand that a stove probably would not work to well down there.)
So here is todays question that someone here might could share their experienced opinion on. I have a Father in law that wants to remove a great looking Craftsman stove that is a pre EPA unit. Should I try this out to see if I even like heating with a stove and burning wood or take the plunge for a newer style stove that has big ol glass front so you can watch the burn? I would have to install an insulated liner either way so I know I am looking at around 500 to 700 for that and the install I can do myself. Do you think that the older stove would burn so much more wood that it would be aggrevating and turn me off wood burning altogether? I don't really cherish the idea of having to clean a liner more and burning twice as much wood. I have been looking at the following EPA stoves since I have a rather large space to heat and fairly open single level floorplan. (Osburn 2400, Large Drolet for Northern tool and a couple other 3.0 cu feet stoves.) The room that the stove would go in is about 450 sq feet with catherdral ceiling at 18 feet with a ceiling fan. The total square footage is about 2400 sq feet. I know how much everyone love pics and can take some when I get home.
Oh by the way the craftsman stove which is a large stove also has some stainless liner that I might could possibly reuse. I think it is the solid ss type that I might could add on to for height because its probably too short. This could cut down on cost of the trial wood experience.
Anyway thanks for all the great reading that yal have provided over the last few months, I can't wait to hear what you have to say.

 

[FyreBug]

Welcome to the board!

Don't know anything about the Craftsman stove so I cant comment. If you're trying to decide, I'm sure you found out the many benefits of using an EPA unit. If you're considering an insert a good rule of thumb is put the biggest one that will fit in your fireplace and use a SS liner

As far as brands are concerned, use the search feature using the name & model and you'll find plenty of useful comments on the particular model you are researching. Others will jump in fairly quickly with recommendations.

Hold on tight, it's gonna be a fun ride!

 

[begreen]

I would definitely opt for the newer stove. You will use less wood as long as the wood is seasoned. And properly installed, burning dry wood, you should be cleaning the flue a lot less. Another one to consider would be the Englander 30NC, for $1099 (includes blower) delivered:

http://www.overstockstoves.com/50nowomo2sqf.html

 

[NCredneck]

Thanks for the warm welcome FyreBug..funny that you hailed me 1st cuz my VHF radio handle is Firebug (striper fishing thang).

BeGreen thanks the post. I looked at the link but it seems the Englander is a freestanding unit only. I think I might have seen another member on here with his installed like an insert...I can't remember for sure. Is this an option that you know of? If so that one might would be a possible option especially since it has the large firebox.

 

[nola mike]

Does the craftsman use the same size chimney as the newer units you're looking at? It would take a long time to get your money back from the difference in efficiency of the EPA v. early, especially given your climate. If all else is the same, and the install is easy, and money saving is the goal, I'd try the craftsman first. Then you also have the option of keeping your eyes open for a used EPA stove, no hurry. I did that with my jotul last year, and it worked out well (although I still don't know if I'm sold on the EPA 602 v. the pre...)

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the warm welcome FyreBug..funny that you hailed me 1st cuz my VHF radio handle is Firebug (striper fishing thang).

BeGreen thanks the post. I looked at the link but it seems the Englander is a freestanding unit only. I think I might have seen another member on here with his installed like an insert...I can't remember for sure. Is this an option that you know of? If so that one might would be a possible option especially since it has the large firebox.

BrotherBart has his installed in a large fireplace. What are the dimensions?

 

[NCredneck]

Good point nola mike, might be a waste if the craftsman stove is not a 6 inch flue or the same size that a selected new EPA stove would be. I feel like its probably 6 inch but need to check. No need to try the craftsman if I had to buy 8 inch and then turn around and buy 6 inch later for a new stove later.
BeGreen I know the width is 44 inch and depth I think was 18 or so deep with rear width being 34 inches. I think the height was either 24 or possibly 28 or so..gotta check when I get home. I will post entire area once I do.

 

[SteveKG]

There are some issues here to consider. If the Craftsman is free, and I assume it is, you can try it for the cost of the liner, about. If you are not yet sure you will want to stick with some wood heating, that is the least expensive way to start.

If you are leaning toward wood heat fairly certainly, it gets more complicated. If you try out the free stove first then switch it out for a new one, you will have the added labor and time and hassle of the exchange [stoves are heavy, too]. If you don't mind the chore, no big deal. If you do, might be somewhat of an issue.

Check the flu/attachments for the Craftsman. Determine whether the stove you might switch to requires about the same size of everything. These things are pricey. You don't want to be laying out several hundred bucks [perhaps] of adaptors, etc., only to have to go out and buy another set of them for a new stove.

How did the stove work for the in-law?

Do you have wood available [free] or will you be buying? That could make the difference between a somewhat more efficient stove [burning less wood for the BTUs] a consideration, either way.

If you don't mind the work involved, and I suspect you do not, nothing lost by trying out the Craftsman first to see how you like heating or supplementing heat with it. As long as the liner and etc. will be reusable if you decide on a different stove afterwards.

 

[jeff_t]

If you're interested in a big firebox, the big Bucks should fit in your fireplace. They can be installed as freestanding or as an insert. That's also providing you can fit an 8" liner in your chimney.

 

[FyreBug]

Keep in mind that any firebox you will install as an insert there is a higher cost associated with bigger flue's. You can get pretty big firebox with a standard 6" flue.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Welcome to the forum NCredneck.

The first thing that strikes me is that you are wondering if you will really want to continue burning wood once you start and you've stated nothing about the fuel you will be burning. This strikes me as one more case of someone wanting to burn wood but has no fuel so will start looking for fuel after or during the install. That is not the best way to start burning wood. Keep in mind that even if you buy your wood already put up that the wood seller will no doubt tell you the wood is seasoned. That more than likely will not mean it is good wood as their "seasoned" wood is usually not dry wood. Wood needs time to dry and that time doesn't start until the wood has been cut to length and then split. You can leave a long log for a long time and it will not dry except for the very end of the log so if they cut something that has been down for a couple years it very well can be a meaningless time. Also, different types of wood need different lengths of drying time.

Now bear in mind that the new EPA stoves need a drier wood than the old smoke dragons did. With the old stoves one could sometimes get away with burning almost green wood but then, those that did also usually have tales of large amounts of creosote, chimney fires, smoky house and a stinky house too. Burn good wood and you won't have those problems. So how much different would a new stove be?

That depends upon the fuel you will burn and the installation of the stove. As an example though I can tell you that our old stove we burned for over 20 years and then we bought the new stove. Since that time we have found (over the last 4 winters) that we now burn about 50% of the amount of wood we used to burn and we stay a whole lot warmer. In addition to that, we used to clean our chimney 3-4 times per year. In the 4 years we've owned the Fireview, we've cleaned our chimney one time and got just a tiny amount of soot with no creosote. Yes, the fuel and a good stove can make a tremendous difference.

There are many stoves that might satisfy your needs but I just want you to know that you need to put as much thought into your fuel as you do your stove. Even if you have to wait another winter for the stove and installation, it might be to your advantage to immediately start looking for fuel and then after getting it, decide when you will start burning wood. So please do yourself a favor and do not start your wood burning with poor wood. That could give you the results that say you don't want to burn wood! Burn good wood and you'll love it.

 

[NCredneck]

Ok measured the existing fireplace and the dimensions are front opening 44" wide, 28.75" high from hearth to metal holding brick but might could tilt something in a bit. The depth is 22.5", and the back width is 38". If I will save 1/2 the wood, I am thinking I will go with a better EPA unit. I don't think its worth installing twice, cleaning flues more often not to mention splitting that much more wood. It seems some on here say they still love there dragons and some even burn close to the same amount of wood. I really hope some of those posters chime in.
As far as wood on hand, I did a test on whether I really wanted to c/s/s since I ruptured a disk between C5 and C6 in my neck. I put up about 2 cords of oak and pine and whatever else was in the pile my wifes uncle had this past spring. He pushed over about an acres worth of trees to make a couple ponds about 3 years ago and said I could have all I wanted. Most were off the ground in piles so they haven't rotted or anything and bark is gone off some or falls off while stacking. Its own its way to wood heaven. I did notice a little moisture still there as I split some but I feel like those 2 cords are dry now and I don't think it would take a whole year for what I am about to jump on to dry because its been in piles so long. I might be wrong. But if it doesn't burn good I will not keep burning it, I would just wait till next year and use lp gas again. (about 2k a year for that) At least I would have a couple months worth to try burning wood. As a supplement it may even carry me thru the winter..idk. If I jump on a bunch this fall and next spring..that wood should be ready next year for sure. I can see a wood splitter in my future though. LOL 2 cords and I gotta go gas.
I just looked at the wood pile. It might not be ideal because I started splitting for a boiler and to see if I really wanted to mess with splitting period. Two wood piles are 8 foot long, 6 foot high and wood is about 20 inched wide on each so I may be pusing it close to get it in a stove.

 

[NCredneck]

Does the craftsman use the same size chimney as the newer units you're looking at? It would take a long time to get your money back from the difference in efficiency of the EPA v. early, especially given your climate. If all else is the same, and the install is easy, and money saving is the goal, I'd try the craftsman first. Then you also have the option of keeping your eyes open for a used EPA stove, no hurry. I did that with my jotul last year, and it worked out well (although I still don't know if I'm sold on the EPA 602 v. the pre...)

So whats the difference in your wood usage for pre Epa and new stove? Or are the two stoves totally different sizes etc. and hard to compare.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Just be aware that oak gives up moisture very reluctantly. When we cut and split oak, we won't burn it until it has been in the stack 3 years. Also, those trees that have been pushed over I certainly would not consider those ready to burn by a long shot. Remember that wood starts to dry after it has been split. Then it is best stacked where wind can do it's work to dry the wood. Sun is good too but wind works even better. Both is a charm.

 

[NCredneck]

There are some issues here to consider. If the Craftsman is free, and I assume it is, you can try it for the cost of the liner, about. If you are not yet sure you will want to stick with some wood heating, that is the least expensive way to start.

If you are leaning toward wood heat fairly certainly, it gets more complicated. If you try out the free stove first then switch it out for a new one, you will have the added labor and time and hassle of the exchange [stoves are heavy, too]. If you don't mind the chore, no big deal. If you do, might be somewhat of an issue.

Check the flu/attachments for the Craftsman. Determine whether the stove you might switch to requires about the same size of everything. These things are pricey. You don't want to be laying out several hundred bucks [perhaps] of adaptors, etc., only to have to go out and buy another set of them for a new stove.

How did the stove work for the in-law?

Do you have wood available [free] or will you be buying? That could make the difference between a somewhat more efficient stove [burning less wood for the BTUs] a consideration, either way.

If you don't mind the work involved, and I suspect you do not, nothing lost by trying out the Craftsman first to see how you like heating or supplementing heat with it. As long as the liner and etc. will be reusable if you decide on a different stove afterwards.

I will have to check on the size flues but I think this would be a fairly easy install. The stove would run them out if they let it get outta hand but their house is much smaller than ours. (but also older and not as well insulated).
I live on 8 acres of land that is surrounded by another 90 acres of family land. I know they will not care if I get fallen stuff or the occassional tree or two, just can't clear cut everything. I don't plan on buying wood but I wouldn't put it past me down the road.