Generator Maintenance

[jadm]

Had quite a storm the other night. Knocked power out in several cities. Our block was the last to get up and running again....( I am ashamed to admit that out lack of power only lasted 2 days when I know many of you go through this for weeks at a time in the dead of winter....maybe when I was young but those days are gone!)

To make a long story short. I bought a generator and now am putting it into the shed - hopefully for a long, long time.

Getting conflicting advise on how best to store so that it will operate when needed.

One school of thought is run it dry - drain all fuel. Put a quart in every 3 months and run it out.

Another school of thought is to add fuel stabilizer to remaining gas (My tank holds 7 gal. of gas and has 1/2 a tank in it now.) and run in once a month for 15 minutes with a light load throughout the year.

Anybody have personal experience with storing one of these things long term without having start up problems when it is needed again?

(It is a Troy-built ,6500 watt electric start generator. NOT hooked to my home elec. box. I just plug extensions cords in it for items I want to use.)

I personally favor the 2nd school of thought. Seems like a lot less work.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Later]

When I buy fresh gas I stabilize it immediately. Then I fill the generator and run it once a month for about 1/2 hour.

 

[Highbeam]

My genset holds about 5 gallons in a metal tank that will last more than 12 hours of runtime as it is only a 3500 watt set. It is always full of stabilized fuel. It's a backup generator that needs to be ready to go at a moment's notice so I want it fueled and oiled. I run it every month or so with a set of floodlights for a load and always turn the petcock to off and let the carb run dry for storage.

You're going to be burning a lot of fuel to keep that genset running for days. You will want that 7 gallons topped off so that you can get at least an 7-14 hour burn without having to siphon from the car. That's right, you'll need to fill it every day if you only run it during the daylight hours.

 

[Dune]

Diesel doesn't degrade the way gas does, but it has other problems. Your best bet is an algacide or biocide from a truck stop or auto parts store. In the winter a small percentage of kerocene will help the fuel flow.

 

[fossil]

The colder it gets, the more diesel tends to "gel" (paraffin wax precipitates out). If it gels up, your engine ain't gonna run, because the filter will clog and there'll be no fuel flow to the engine. The fuel suppliers in climate areas that experience cold winter temperatures adjust the composition (blend) of diesel from summer to winter...but if you've got a tankful of "summer" diesel still waiting to be burned, that doesn't help you much. You can buy diesel conditioner at most any auto supply store or gas station, and add a bit to the tank according to the directions (it doesn't take much). In reality, it's probably nothing much more than kerosene (#1 diesel). Be sure to do this before the cold weather sets in, and then run the machine to get the conditioned fuel all through the system. Rick

 

[jadm]

You're going to be burning a lot of fuel to keep that genset running for days. You will want that 7 gallons topped off so that you can get at least an 7-14 hour burn without having to siphon from the car. That's right, you'll need to fill it every day if you only run it during the daylight hours.

Hopefully I won't be needing it for days at a time again. I have lived here for 32 years and rarely do we loose power for more than a few hours at a time. Usually in the winter due to snow and ice.

Very novice at this and I was scared of running out of gas while things were plugged into it so I had my son top it off when the fuel gauge got down to 1/4 a tank. I ran it from 9a.m. to 10p.m. and would guess we used about 10 gallons of gas. Luckily we live very close to several gas stations so having fuel of hand isn't that big of a problem.

I got this mainly so that food in my deep freeze and my refrigerator/freezer wouldn't spoil. Those were the main 2 items plugged in. When the kids got hungry I added a toaster oven or the toaster and also used the hot plate. Nobody starved . I also have a gas grill outside and we used that too before I got the generator - I made the kids choc. chip pancakes on it!

This is a whole new learning experience. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[jadm]

When I buy fresh gas I stabilize it immediately. Then I fill the generator and run it once a month for about 1/2 hour.

How long does the gas you put in last doing that? (My manual said stabilized gas can be kept in the generator for 2 years and still be okay. That seemed a bit long to me but I have never used a stabilizer before so I have no idea.)

Think that is what I will try for now and then when what's in there runs out I'll add a bit more so I can run it every month.


How much stabilizer do you use per gallon of gas? My bottle said to use 1oz. per 2.5 gallons of gas when used regularly. For storage purposes it said to double that amount so I put in 2 oz. to my 3.5 gallons of gas. Hope that wasn't too much....

 

[Dix]

Perp, I think you can save some time & effort. Charge the fridge & the freezer every couple oh hours. Might help ya save some $$$'s.

Ice chests are a big asset in times of major power outages.

 

[jadm]

Perp, I think you can save some time & effort. Charge the fridge & the freezer every couple oh hours. Might help ya save some $$$'s.

Ice chests are a big asset in times of major power outages.

How long do I need to charge them for? Like 1/2 hour at a time? How come I didn't think of that? :red: ( I so love what I learn here. Old 'dogs can indeed learn new tricks.)

Hauling those gas cans did get a bit tiring and I am sure my 12 year old's enthusiasm would have dipped had we had to go any longer....

Refrig./freezer warms up more quickly than deep freeze because we are in and out of it all day. I can leave my deep freeze for 24 hours and not worry about thaw because we don't have to go into it.

In the past I have always relied on our ice chest and used it again this time but this time it needed a backup!

 

[pybyr]

My suggestion-- don't be compulsive about running it dry, but do use a good fuel stabilizer.

and:

Try not to leave a whole lot of gasoline actually in the generator-- instead, have some fuel cans to keep it in.

Every so often, (and how long "often" means depending on how fastidious you want to be about all this), use the fuel in the fuel cans to "top off" your vehicle- and then go refill the cans.

This way, your main stockpile of emergency fuel is never very old. Also this way, if the fuel that's actually in the generator gets a bit stale, you won't have to try to run the genset through a whole tank of stale fuel-- in fact, if you pour your fresh "stockpiled" fuel into the generator, it will dilute the small quantity of old fuel that was already in the generator.

In my experience, most of these small engines aren't really as finicky about fuel as you might think-- they'll generally run, though maybe not as well as they could, even with some pretty crummy fuel. On the other hand, since you're looking at this as a sort of emergency purpose, so it'd really be a lousy surprise to find that your fuel has turned to crud, and your genset runs like crud, at the very point in time when you most need it.

Also, run it -- and give it an actual electrical load (a hairdryer or toaster is a good "test load" that is portable)-- every so often (at least once a year- ideally maybe once a season)-- it'll not only verify that it works, but giving it "exercise" will help keep moisture out of it, give you a heads up if mice have tried to move into some part of it (don't laugh), etc.

Good luck

 

[fbelec]

this past december in northern and central mass we had a ice storm that took down power at my house for 2 days. some parts had no power for two weeks. i have a 25 year old coleman 5000 watt generator. last time i used it was 10 years ago on a large electrical job i had going. after i was done using it i took it down to be serviced. got it home ran it out of gas and it sat in my garage for the 10 years. when i needed it this past december i filled it up with gas, hooked up some jumpers from my truck. (electric start)
and it fired up right away and ran like a champ. when i was done i drained the gas, started it up let it run out, changed the oil and that's it. ready for the next time.

 

[jebatty]

Mainly seconding others' comments for a gasoline generator - my practices:
1) always use storage stabilized fuel to add to the genset.
2) run regularly under at least half load (both sides of a 240V genset) for enough time for it to be at operating temp for awhile (1/2 to 1 hr); get's moisture out and insures it works.
3) let carb run dry when finishing a run.
4) don't be concerned about keeping tank full, in fact don't keep much in the tank at all, but keep several 5 gallon containers of stabilized (or new) fuel on hand, and rotate these through your car/truck so fuel is always fresh. I keep 15-30 gal of fuel always on hand. Then when you need the genset for real, add fresh fuel with stabilizer.
5) Be sure to test run all circuits/equipment you want the genset to supply to make sure that they will operate as intended in an emergency.
6) Use a transfer switch if supplying whole circuits; otherwise direct connect appliances to genset and don't supply through house wiring.
7) Use synthetic oil with very low viscosity to protect the engine and cold weather performance.

I have a 10 circuit transfer switch and a 5600W-240V continuous genset powering these circuits, all 120V except the last one. With these powered, we're hardly interrupted at all on a power failure.

5 general lighting circuits, mostly CFL lights (includes one outlet circuit for computer, TV, etc.)
1 kitchen outlet circuit (also powers microwave)
1 refrigerator
1 sump pump
2 (240V subpanel) freezer (120V), water well pump (240V)

 

[Cutter]

Perplexed mentioned being close to gas stations. Going a little off of topic, two years ago we had a major wide spread outage and the local stations were out of power and could not run the gas pumps. I was having to travel an extra 10 miles to a station that had power. West of here people were having to go to the next town (about 30 miles) to buy gas. I was having to go buy gas every day for almost a week. I always thought 6 five gallon cans was plenty. I was wrong.

 

[jadm]

Thanks to all for all the good information. I copied your replies and have them in my operator's manual.

You have all helped in easy to follow, manageable tips on how to run this new addition. Ideas I never would have thought of yet so simple - like don't run things all the time, put storage fuel into car tanks and reload with fresh fuel.....husband has always been in charge of outdoor equipment and he doesn't rotate gas. He is not home during power outages - goes to his office - so generator falls under my 'jurisdiction'. I no longer feel so overwhelmed by the thing.

 

[JustWood]

What is the reasoning behind running engine out of gas?
I was always told to keep fuel in the system so o-rings,gaskets,seals ,etc don't dry out.
Does it have to do with ethanol in the gas ?

 

[Highbeam]

What is the reasoning behind running engine out of gas?
I was always told to keep fuel in the system so o-rings,gaskets,seals ,etc don't dry out.
Does it have to do with ethanol in the gas ?

I've heard this too but I've never ever seen a relatively modern fuel system dry out and go bad. I have seen, and had to repair, entire carburetors filled with goop and crystals from spoiled fuel. I'm going to call it a myth that carbs dry out and go bad or at the very least it is way less likely to be a problem than keeping them full of gas.

I'll also agree that it takes a long long time for gasoline to really go bad. Despite what the performance enthusiasts say. Sure it may not be as good as new but it is certainly good enough to run the engine.

I usually run the standard dose of sta-bil which is one oz per 2.5 gallons. I do not think that there is anything in the sta-bil product that can damage your engine if it was doubled, tripled, or even more. I believe it is an alcohol of some sort, maybe methanol.

For those who might be considering a back up genset. Don't go so big. I can run my 20.6 CF freezer, inhouse refrigerator/freezer, all lights, entertainment, and even the microwave OR the electric range burners with my little 3500 watt champion with a 6.5 HP engine. You don't need a huge genset unless you are trying to run a well pump or a water heater. I originally bought a 6800 watt coleman and it was super loud and would drink nearly a gallon per hour of gas. These new champions (several brands buy them and rebadge them, even onan/summins) are a honda clone engine and super quiet. Super long run times from the large fuel tank and cheap to buy.

If we want to really get fancy, just about any genset can be converted to propane or to dual-fuel propane and gas. The propane won't spoil and many folks have a huge tank of it in their yard for extended runs.

 

['bert]

If we want to really get fancy, just about any genset can be converted to propane or to dual-fuel propane and gas. The propane won't spoil and many folks have a huge tank of it in their yard for extended runs.

Here is a link for anyone considering taking the "Highbeam" approach...

http://uscarb.com/

 

[Highbeam]

If we want to really get fancy, just about any genset can be converted to propane or to dual-fuel propane and gas. The propane won't spoil and many folks have a huge tank of it in their yard for extended runs.

Here is a link for anyone considering taking the "Highbeam" approach...

http://uscarb.com/

Thanks AB. I haven't done this conversion since I don't have a bulk propane tank but I am interested in it since better than 90%, (okay, the huge majority) of genset failures are related to fuel system failures and lack of use.

 

[jadm]

For those who might be considering a back up genset. Don't go so big. I can run my 20.6 CF freezer, inhouse refrigerator/freezer, all lights, entertainment, and even the microwave OR the electric range burners with my little 3500 watt champion with a 6.5 HP engine. You don't need a huge genset unless you are trying to run a well pump or a water heater. I originally bought a 6800 watt coleman and it was super loud and would drink nearly a gallon per hour of gas. These new champions (several brands buy them and rebadge them, even onan/summins) are a honda clone engine and super quiet. Super long run times from the large fuel tank and cheap to buy.

If we want to really get fancy, just about any genset can be converted to propane or to dual-fuel propane and gas. The propane won't spoil and many folks have a huge tank of it in their yard for extended runs.

Usually I do extensive research prior to buying 'big' items. This time I had no internet due to outage and my time was crunched. Went to Lowes because it is 5 min. away and knew I wanted one with the electric start option. The one I got was the lowest amp. one they had available.(I can not pull start things anymore so electric start is a necessity.) I agree that it is noisy as all get out. I had mine in our garage with the garage door left open so it muffled it a bit but it sure would be nice having a quieter one.....(Garage is not attached to the house.) Maybe I can sell this one in next emergency situation and get a little one. :lol:

In the meantime:

Read through the conversion info. posted and that looks like an option I will look into due to the storage capabilities of propane. I can use grill propane cans...Now I have time to research.

If I do convert and empty the gas that is in it now can I just stick it in the shed with an empty tank and no propane hooked up to it and when it is time to use it just hook a propane tank up to it?

With propane as primary fuel source is the engine oil still necessary?

Sounds like from what I read on the site that I can keep the gas as an option too.

Have to wait until Monday to give them a call and then see if someone around here who knows how to work on engines can do the switch.

 

[Later]

I used to run the generator out of gas and then store it. But there was enough in the carb bowl to gum up and prevent me from starting it when needed. So now i stabilize the gas, and the two extra 5 gal cans that I keep around. I always keep the gen tank full. I run the gen for abuyt an hour each month. Throughout the seasons I use the gas in the 5 gal cans for the mowers, snowblower and chain saw - and refill the cans as needed. In the winter I always keep at least 15 gal. around. 5 in the gen and the two 5 gal cans. I have considered a propane or NG conversion but my NG inlet is as far away from the gen as it could be and I really don't want to run the piping needed. Propane is good, but a 20 lb. BBQ tank is about the same a a 5 gal can of gas and I'd have to keep three of them around. You still need lubricating oil.

 

[Highbeam]

Yes, you can leave the genset in the shed and when needed wheel it to the propane tank and hook up the propane feed via a quick disconnect. You could completely remove the gas tank if you desire.

The engine oil is still necessary though it will stay cleaner longer since the propane won't contaminate the oil like liquid gas will. I would stil lstick to the scheduled maintenance though.

The dual fuel option is great since you can use whatever fuel is available. You might want to use your genset for a remote project or when you go camping sometime and using the gas tank would be desirable.

 

[Gooserider]

My opinion - The fuel tank should be EITHER as close to empty as you can get it, or completely full - half full invites condensation and contamination of the fuel. Use fuel stablilizer in the tank if stored full. When running during a power failure, there is no real need to use the stabilizer, just add it when the juice comes back on and you are shutting down... Run stabilized fuel into the carb, then shut off the gas and let the carb run dry. A dry carb will suffer less in storage than one with gas in it that is slowly turning to crap...

I pull the engine over every once in a while, but I only try to start it once or twice a year, start of winter, and / or if I hear about a potential power failure event prediction (i.e. Hurricane warning) Most of the time, I only keep the generator tank filled w/ stabilized gas, which gives me a reliable 5 gallons on hand - About once a year (at the start of the winter storm season) I dump the can into the van and refill w/ fresh gas and stabilizer. I also usually keep another 5 gallon can around w/ gas for the mower, and other 4-stroke OPE, but that doesn't stay full... In the winter I will up that by adding a 2nd can, and rotating between them, so that I always have snowblower and generator fuel...

If I run the generator for more than a few hours, I change the oil in the spring, in order to minimize any damage done by sitting w/ old oil on the bearings and other critical surfaces.

Note that the idea of doing a multi-fuel setup is a good one, and will work with either propane or Natural Gas (as long as the NG pipe is big enough in diameter) - I've considered a gas conversion, but one problem I've got is that the line to the garage is to small to feed the generator w/ a short line, and it would be VERY expensive to get a long enough flex line to go from where I'd be putting the generator to the meter... However the big advantage is that it is just about unheard of for the natural gas to go out...

Gooserider

 

['bert]

Goose have you considered putting the genset closer to the gas meter only during a power outage? It may be cheaper to run a heavy gauge extension cord to where ever you need to do your power tie in. Just a thought...

 

[Gooserider]

Goose have you considered putting the genset closer to the gas meter only during a power outage? It may be cheaper to run a heavy gauge extension cord to where ever you need to do your power tie in. Just a thought...

Yes, but one of my working assumptions is that living in New England, the most likely scenario where I'd need to run the genset is during / after a winter blizzard. The genny is a heavy bugger, and while it has wheels, they are mostly good only for flat surfaces. Not a big deal for rolling it out to the driveway, but considerably more of a challenge for getting it over to near the gas meter. Even if I did, the meter is located where it would be a LONG reach to get back into the house w/ power, unlike just running it in through the garage...

Essentially it looks to me like it would take a sizeable amount of work and money to do the gas conversion, and I'm not convinced that we can justify the need given our past history on power failures - I think in the 15 years we've been in this house, the longest we've been out is around 12 hours... I inherited this genset from my father, and while I'm glad to have it, I'm not sure I would have bought one if I'd had to pay for it.

Now if I do the gasification boiler project that I have on the drawing board, it is possible that I might end up doing some other work on the gas plumbing as part of the project, in which case it is possible that I might revisit the idea of putting in the gas and / or electrical plumbing needed for the genset as part of the package.

Gooserider