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Geothermal is out! Need advice on the boiler route

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by denvershepherd, Mar 24, 2012.

  1. Hansson

    Hansson Feeling the Heat

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    You are right :) And you can always fill you boiler full.
    I have a smal tank to my boiler and have to wait to the tanks go down in temp before I can fill my boiler full.
    Bigger tanks make the system more flexible. You can make a fire when you have the time..

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  2. Hansson

    Hansson Feeling the Heat

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    Is the propane boiler for backup?
    If so you haven't consider electricity for backup? The propane boiler was expensive

    Maybe you pay more for electricity in the US but the install is very simple.
    Put the electric heater and the thermostat in the top of tank and its done.
  3. denvershepherd

    denvershepherd New Member

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    I'm leaning more towards electric as the back up now. I need to do more research on it but what products do you recommend for this?

    Thanks,

    Neil
  4. Hansson

    Hansson Feeling the Heat

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    I have one like this.
    [​IMG]
    The thermostat is in the unit and its on 4.5+4.5 Kw. This one is from varmebaronen but there must be hundreds of producers of this products.
    Verry simpel install in R50mm
  5. denvershepherd

    denvershepherd New Member

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    Okkkkk. After a longggg summer of home modification with new floors and the installation of heat transfer plates topping the list, I'm actually ready to get the system installed. I'm going with the Froling FHG-L and one last question I'm going back and forth with the installer about is storage. We both agree that a 1000 gallon storage will work well. I want to use the Ahona two 500 gallon stacked ASME certified tanks but my installers concern with them is that they will rust out? He said he was going to research some pressurized tanks with liners in them? Has anyone heard of these? Has anyone had any problems with steel pressurized tanks rusting out and if so how long would such a process take?

    Winter is quickly arriving so I know I better get moving on this. What a process!!! Just wanted to say that this site and the people in it have been a HUGE help to me!

    Thanks.
  6. heaterman

    heaterman Minister of Fire

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    Of course they will rust out. Eventually. Probably long after you and I have both left this world though. I see literally dozens of expansion tanks every year that are well into the 50 year old range and still functioning perfectly. All other things being equal, a storage tank that is completely filled with system water will last at least as long or longer than an expansion tank.
    Watch the water quality and get it tested by a lab every couple years. This will build a track record which will alert you any changes in the system which may require attention.
  7. denvershepherd

    denvershepherd New Member

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    That's what I figured as well. The storage will probably outlast the Froling lol. Any problems going with the ASME tanks from Ahona that you know of?

    Thanks.
  8. JP11

    JP11 Minister of Fire

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    You won't really find anyone on here talking bad about Mark and AHONA. He's been great for me since about 2 years before I gave him a penny. Happy to be his customer.

    JP
  9. denvershepherd

    denvershepherd New Member

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    He's been very responsive via email which is great. Do you have his ASME certified tanks? I think they are the yellow ones on his website.

    Thanks
  10. JP11

    JP11 Minister of Fire

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    I don't. I scrounged two 500s and had them made into two vertical tanks. I did buy my boiler from him though. Funny.. as I type this his yellow tanks are the ad right above the box I'm typing in.

    JP
  11. CMAG

    CMAG Member

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    All this storage size talk got me thinking, has anyone considered staging tanks
  12. Wood-Wannabe

    Wood-Wannabe New Member

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    So Neil, how's it going? Did you get your storage on line yet? Are you heating with wood yet? Gotten rid of those electric baseboards and that big electric bill?
  13. denvershepherd

    denvershepherd New Member

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    Hi Wood-Wannabe,

    WELLLLLLLLL.........funny you should ask lol. After having all my plans in place, and hours away from pulling the trigger on the Froling, I did a 180 degree turn and purchased a Garn WHS-2000. There were a few factors in my decision, but mainly all the unknowns about the storage finally made the Garn the more logical choice. The last month has been a ZOO! I was going to put the Garn in a "Garm Barn" but because I essentially live on a huge rock, the trenching for the lines from the barn to the home would have cost a lot of money. So.... I had an addition built on the house that is now the new home for the Garn. They essentially finished the addition today and the next step is to have the company build the insulated enclosure around the Garn itself. After that they will hook up and install the unit to the infloor radiant system. There are a lot of specifics I'm leaving out but essentially that's where I am. It's been a lot of scheduling and organization getting to this point but I feel like I'm probably less than a month away from getting online. I have a bunch of pictures and videos of the Garn being delivered and the addition being built around it that I want to share on here....I just need to figure out how lol.
  14. Wood-Wannabe

    Wood-Wannabe New Member

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    Well that is just tremendous. I have been reading everything I can on hearth.com (including this excellent thread) for the last couple of weeks about gassifiers and more specifically the Garn units, I agree that since you need storage anyway, the Garn makes a lot of sense if you have room for it and can fit it somehow. I know what you are talking about with the rock in the Denver foothills, used to own a house up near Aspen Park in Critchell where they had the big fires this summer. I for one can't wait to see your install pictures!
  15. infinitymike

    infinitymike Minister of Fire

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    Congratulations.
    We wold love to see all the pictures and videos wouyld be real cool too.
    I use imageshack.us to upload my photos that are in my computer but hearth has made it real easy to upload a picture.
    Just click on the upload file tab on the lower right corner.
    I uploaded a few videos to youtube and then cut and pasted the link.

    Hope that helps.
  16. denvershepherd

    denvershepherd New Member

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    Ok... Let me give the pictures a shot. I have lots but I'll try a few. I'm getting some errors saying they are too large but it looks like some went up. Let me post and see what happens.

    Attached Files:

  17. denvershepherd

    denvershepherd New Member

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    Are you still in the area? I'm not very far from Aspen Park so if you every want to come buy to look at things just let me know. I'll try to get more pics and videos up here.

    Thanks.
  18. Wood-Wannabe

    Wood-Wannabe New Member

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    Wish I was, sure do miss the mountains. But the Atlantic Ocean isn't bad either. Love the pics! Bet you can't wait to fire that thing up for the first time!

    A general Garn question... With the Garn, don't you get condensate from combustion when you first fire it up cold until you get to 130*F water? I noticed on the recommended plumbing layouts for other gassifiers that you want to have a mixing/return valve so that the incoming water to the boiler is mixed with the heated outgoing water so that boiler wall temps are above the dewpoint of the combustion gases. Seems that you can't do this with the Garn, which is no big deal if your minimum water temp is always above the dewpoint temp (I seem to recall reading 130*F). Doesn't this limit you somewhat in that you need to burn when you get to 130*F with the Garn as compared to other gassifier installations where you don't need to burn until you are down to 115*F (or the low limit of your radiant floor heating or other large surface area room heat exchangers)? I seem to recall that some types of radiators are effective down to 110*F. I guess what I am asking is whether the Garn lower temp limit is set more by protecting the boiler from corrosion than by when your heat exchangers no longer supply enough heat?
  19. denvershepherd

    denvershepherd New Member

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    Hmmmm, I am certainly no expert when it comes to this stuff but I'm sure someone in this wonderful forum will step up and have an educated response to your question. I will ask the installers what they think about that and get back to you with their response.

    You're right though, I cant wait to get it fired up! Mostly so I can have a warm home and warm floors ;)
  20. BoilerBob

    BoilerBob Member

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    I think you will be satisfied with your choice of boiler. I never seen one, but I have been reading on here a lot and many folks wish they had one. They seem like the simplest, easiest boiler to run, with storage included. BTW no low temperature boiler protection needed on the garn.

    Heaterman is the garn expert on here, give him a shout if you need any questions answered.
  21. denvershepherd

    denvershepherd New Member

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    Thanks for the encouragement that I made the right choice. I guess the proof will be when they get it all hooked up and running. I have a lot of confidence that it's going to work awesome from all that I've read on here. I'll make sure I give a full report ;)
  22. denvershepherd

    denvershepherd New Member

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    Hi Heaterman,

    Just wanted to let you know that I ended up going with a Garn 2000. Some pics of it's arrival are posted above. I hear you are the 'go to' guy in here pertaining to Garns so I may bend your ear with some questions as they get it installed if that's ok?
    heaterman likes this.
  23. EffectaBoilerUser (USA)

    EffectaBoilerUser (USA) Member

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    I am currently talking to a gentleman in an area of Colorado that says he is unable to successfully burn the dry pine wood that is readily available in his area due in fixed opening/non lambda boilers.

    Have you had any thought about this?

    Does anyone know of those burning this dry pine in NON Lambda controlled boilers?

    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
  24. denvershepherd

    denvershepherd New Member

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  25. denvershepherd

    denvershepherd New Member

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