Replacing my papa bear with this grandpa bear. I think I scored. Bought from the original owner. I plan to sand and paint next summer. Had to replace 3 firebrick in it.
Grandpa bear
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Ok wow I have been reading everything I can find on these stoves. Wish I would have found this info when I installed my papa bear. Better late than never.
I use the stove to heat my garage mainly on weekends and cold snaps. When I installed the papa I put a 6 inch thru the roof kit in. Until last night I was planning to run 8 blk pipe to the ceiling and then adapt down to 6. If I understand this correct I should reduce it close to the stove without a pipe damper? I never knew about the baffle so I will be making one soon.
The papa was plenty big enough for my garage 28x40 attached I just really love the fishers and always wanted a papa.
I also bought a mama insert early spring and realized I can not use it. So for now I have a mama insert and a papa freestanding for sale.
I use the stove to heat my garage mainly on weekends and cold snaps. When I installed the papa I put a 6 inch thru the roof kit in. Until last night I was planning to run 8 blk pipe to the ceiling and then adapt down to 6. If I understand this correct I should reduce it close to the stove without a pipe damper? I never knew about the baffle so I will be making one soon.
The papa was plenty big enough for my garage 28x40 attached I just really love the fishers and always wanted a papa.
I also bought a mama insert early spring and realized I can not use it. So for now I have a mama insert and a papa freestanding for sale.
No came out of Danville indiana. Guy bought after78 when he bought his home said he used it 2 seasons
It will be interesting to see what you think of the burning characteristics between the two stoves.
Does the Papa Bear have a 6 inch liner in the chimney, or are you using an oversize chimney for it that will be the correct size for the Grandpa? (Using 8 inch connector pipe for Grandpa instead of 6 for Papa?)
If chimney and vent system were correct and comparable, (6 and 8) for each stove, it would be a fair comparison. Using the same chimney you can’t compare the two.
Does the Papa Bear have a 6 inch liner in the chimney, or are you using an oversize chimney for it that will be the correct size for the Grandpa? (Using 8 inch connector pipe for Grandpa instead of 6 for Papa?)
If chimney and vent system were correct and comparable, (6 and 8) for each stove, it would be a fair comparison. Using the same chimney you can’t compare the two.
I put the 6 inch chimney in for the papa. As long as it safe I will use the same chimney for the grandpa.
He said he tried spraying something on it to clean it up on the doors but it stunk up the house. I tend to agree with you it’s been hot. I am going to brush doors down and give them a quick coat. I payed 600.00 it total
The chimney is a 6 I put in for the papa. I will use it for the grandpa unless it’s unsafe. Should I reduce it right away to 6? Should I use a pipe dampener?
That is a Fisher Fireplace Insert. A Mama Bear is a single door stove from the Bear Series, not the Fireplace Series that have 2 doors for fire viewing.
The chimney is the engine that runs the stove, like the engine in a car. It should always match the stove opening for best operation. It is also against code to reduce size from the stove opening.
That said, the double door stove was designed with fire viewing in mind, making it a freestanding fireplace. They are not considered a radiant heater in Fireplace Mode with open doors and screen in place. That is what the flue damper is for, open door burning. The flue damper becomes the only control for the fire by slowing the velocity of rising gasses up stack, reducing NET draft. It is also used with any stove to slow the draft of an over drafting chimney.
With fire established, open doors with screen in place, slowly close damper until smoke collects and starts to roll in at top of door opening. Open slightly to allow evacuation of smoke, while retaining some heat in the stove. This slows the fire by slowing the air flow though it. Most heat still rises up chimney not allowing the stove to heat up. That is the cost of fire viewing just like in a fireplace.
This stove was designed with an 8 inch outlet since they were connected to an existing chimney that had an even larger flue for an open fireplace. A 6 inch opening would not have allowed enough heat up the chimney to keep it clean or draft properly to remove smoke from backing up through the open doors. Many work fine with a straight up chimney reduced to 6 right at the stove. Don’t expect full BTU wide open that it will have using 8 all the way. It is like a restrictor on an engine slowing down the airflow, reducing the power and speed. Most stoves do not need the full BTU like wide open throttle, and should run in the cruise range for best efficiency, so you can still do that.
By making a stove wider for fire viewing, a lot of features are lost. I personally prefer the Bear Series with single door for many reasons. Less fuel usage is number 1 since you are only loosing enough heat to keep a 6 inch flue above 250*f to the top. That is the object of burning any stove. Below that critical temperature, water vapor from combustion condenses inside the pipe and chimney flue walls allowing smoke particles to stick. This creates creosote. So a 6 inch stove connected to a larger chimney allows exhaust gasses to expand, cooling them. I found going from 6 to 8, actually drops by 1/2 the inside flue gas temperature. So a smaller stove has to run so hard to keep the flue hot it can’t heat the area it is in.
The long narrow single door stoves simply fit the shape of wood better. Logs don’t roll out placing the sideways, so you can load to the top. Air rushes down the logs from front to back, mixing with the flammable gasses coming out of the heated wood. They can roar like an oil burner opening the air and start quickly. Not so much with a wide stove with air moving across the logs.A baffle plate is then needed for a much more efficient burn.
This deep design of a stove also allows longer burns by this method; Every morning remove the fine burner ash from the front. Rake coals and some ash from the rear where you should have a glowing coal pile along with some charcoal that has a very low ignition temperature. Build your new fire on these coals, open air dampers 2 or 3 turns and it will take right off. That is difficult with a double door stove other than the deep Insert which is a beast.
The cook top on Papa is huge compared to a Grandpa. They have close to the same square inch surface area, which determines the heat output, but in a different shape. If you don’t have the depth in a room, the Fireplace Series doesn’t protrude into the room as much. That’s why the deep narrow stoves were designed to set across the fireplace front with a side vent. They were available in left or right hand doors to match the outlet side so the door opens against the wall, not in the way for loading.
So the ease of starting, fit of longer logs getting more fuel into the stove overnight, safer loading, larger cooktop, quicker response to air setting, are the features I like instead of fire viewing. That was Bob’s thought when he was approached about designing a stove for fire viewing. Sealing the doors was his concern and wanted nothing to do with designing more stove models. Customers demanded fire viewing since they missed that from closing up their open fireplace, so the demand and a licensed Fisher fabricator that agreed to fulfill his quota of Fishers before going on his own starting Frontier Stoves making them pushed him to create the Grandpa Bear. Soon a smaller double door was needed and added the Grandma just like he downsized the Papa into the Mama as customers needed less output stoves.
Any wood stove installed in a garage is against code in the entire US. It is written so that any stove cannot be installed where any flammable vapors are present. Bringing a vehicle or machine with fuel in a tank may be fine until one leaks. So insurance companies will not cover any accidental damage when a stove is present. Many still use them in garages at their own risk, just be aware when a garage is attached to a home, or does damage to a home, insurance will not cover damages.
Canada allows wood stove use in garages with stove or heater height restrictions since fuel vapors drop to floor level and the intake can be above certain height to be legal there. It only takes a mower once to have a needle and seat stuck open when the float can’t close it and overflow the carb onto the floor overnight. Hence heaters in garages with outside air intake and sealed combustion to prevent igniting fuel vapors. NEVER bring a propane cylinder into a garage or any enclosed building.
Canada allows wood stove use in garages with stove or heater height restrictions since fuel vapors drop to floor level and the intake can be above certain height to be legal there. It only takes a mower once to have a needle and seat stuck open when the float can’t close it and overflow the carb onto the floor overnight. Hence heaters in garages with outside air intake and sealed combustion to prevent igniting fuel vapors. NEVER bring a propane cylinder into a garage or any enclosed building.
A flue damper is a chimney control that affects the stove;
I personally put a flue damper on all installations of older stoves.
They are required in the manual of certain models. It is a velocity control to slow the effect of the chimney, so it is a chimney control that affects the stove by slowing air coming into the intake.
If a log gets jammed in the door, or you need to make a quick repair of gasket material on a stove that uses it, broken glass, anything that you can’t close the air intake to slow the stove, it becomes an emergency brake of sorts to slow draft, slowing the air coming through the stove slowing the fire. In the case of a chimney fire you want every means possible to slow or stop draft as well. Some over drafting chimneys require two if a stove leaks air into firebox and is not controllable with the air intake.
Operators make the mistake by closing a flue damper too much trying to conserve fuel instead of controlling the fire with the air intake dampers. Only partially close a flue damper and watch flue gas temperature carefully.
As stated above, 250* f. is required to the top of chimney while smoke is present to avoid rapid creosote formation. A magnetic thermometer on the pipe above stove senses pipe surface temperature which is about 1/2 the internal flue gas temperature. So the thermometer has temperature ranges expecting the rising gasses to cool by about 1/2 before exiting the top. When they read 300 surface temp, that is 600 internal cooling back to 300 at the top, hence the correct burn will be shown around 250 and above. Below that is creosote formation, above that is wasted heat out the chimney.
I’m recovering from kidney stone surgery, so I went into detail giving you a lot of information to digest for proper operation, and burning tips. Takes my mind off the stent and a miserable recovery between trips to the bathroom lol.
I personally put a flue damper on all installations of older stoves.
They are required in the manual of certain models. It is a velocity control to slow the effect of the chimney, so it is a chimney control that affects the stove by slowing air coming into the intake.
If a log gets jammed in the door, or you need to make a quick repair of gasket material on a stove that uses it, broken glass, anything that you can’t close the air intake to slow the stove, it becomes an emergency brake of sorts to slow draft, slowing the air coming through the stove slowing the fire. In the case of a chimney fire you want every means possible to slow or stop draft as well. Some over drafting chimneys require two if a stove leaks air into firebox and is not controllable with the air intake.
Operators make the mistake by closing a flue damper too much trying to conserve fuel instead of controlling the fire with the air intake dampers. Only partially close a flue damper and watch flue gas temperature carefully.
As stated above, 250* f. is required to the top of chimney while smoke is present to avoid rapid creosote formation. A magnetic thermometer on the pipe above stove senses pipe surface temperature which is about 1/2 the internal flue gas temperature. So the thermometer has temperature ranges expecting the rising gasses to cool by about 1/2 before exiting the top. When they read 300 surface temp, that is 600 internal cooling back to 300 at the top, hence the correct burn will be shown around 250 and above. Below that is creosote formation, above that is wasted heat out the chimney.
I’m recovering from kidney stone surgery, so I went into detail giving you a lot of information to digest for proper operation, and burning tips. Takes my mind off the stent and a miserable recovery between trips to the bathroom lol.
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reason I was asking about location was I missed one a grandpa bear like this with 4 feet Thursday night for $100 in central IL
Well that would have been a steal. I gave 600 for this stove. I now know it may not be my best stove for my current setup. So it may go back up for sale. Well see I am going to burn it a few times and see how I like.
At least you have the feet that sell for up to $100 each, usually more like $300 a set for fine condition, so you will get your money back for it. Every one of mine so far is an excellent investment. Just have to find the right buyer. Prices can be all over the place when sellers don’t know what they have, or buyers read too many threads here and get desperate. I never smoked or was hooked on any drugs, but I can’t turn down a good deal on a stove I want. I’ll stop there before writing something I regret while taking these pain meds now.
If you put a baffle in it, which you should, adjust the opening the smoke travels through to be the same square inch area as your chimney flue. At least 28.26 square inches and lower it to increase the opening if smoke wants to roll in when opening doors. Also never open doors quickly with any stove. Later Fisher models have a double acting latch that doesn’t allow the door to open quickly. You have to rotate handle one direction, open door a crack and rotate the other direction to open fully. This second or more hesitation allows a gulp of inside air up stack to increase draft speed decreasing spillage. You can force most any stove to burp back opening doors too fast.
An Insert up on blocks seems to be more of what you need heating a large area fast, and use a blower to move the hot air from around the back through the double wall inlet and exhaust across the top. They load like the Papa, easier than Grandpa being deeper. They also have a decent area at the top front for a cook top. Baffle it as well. Just stick an 8 inch reducer in the top then reduce with damper in the pipe. Use a pipe thermometer for whichever you decide to use. I test with a infrared thermometer to test stove surface temps as well as temperature drop as it rises up pipe. You won’t know what each stove is doing without it, and they’re cheap. Be most concerned about the temp where pipe enters chimney, then it’s a guess as how much cooling from there up. That depends on the type of chimney pipe and insulation. Insulated double wall (best) or insulated triple wall chimney pipe, or uninsulated masonry (worst).
Welcome to 2021.
$300 for the feet and 300 for the stove! Seen much worse.
That screen is much older and the first one available for the ‘76 model year, highly sought after since there are many more Grandma screens available that fit the Insert, Goldilocks and Teddy Bear as well. You can set your price on any Grandpa screen on eBay. They have become that rare. That one should sell for the most, next to an XL stainless screen you may never find.
My garage is a garage but it’s built like a shop well insulated has a bath and kitchen it. It’s more like added living space/shop we tinker in there. We don’t park in it very often at all then it’s my truck (deisel) no gas storage or anything like that. I am very careful about that. My insurance company knows about my stove and come out and inspected. Going to call my agent tomorrow to double check. I didn’t know they were banned. I know I pay a premium for having it.
The grandpa was a sentimental purchase. I wanted one when I bought this place but all I could find was a papa. It has served me very well.
I put the Selkirk double wall 6 insulated kit in it was inspected after install. No problems. I take my inside pipe down several times a winter and clean it. I get nervous about a flue fire.
From what I have learned in last two days I was burning my stove all wrong. I will be changing that.
I plan to keep grandpa and install a baffle. Unless insurance just throws a fit. I don’t think they will they know how I use it.
I appreciate all the feedback.
I have 2 sets of feet now. The set I just got I think are really nice. I hear the grandpa screen is pretty rare and desirable. So I think I can make my money back if needed.
There are several on marketplace and one on eBay for crazy money 1000 and up.
If you pull vehicles into it you can't have a solid fuel burner in it. You havnt been able to for decades. I think it is a stupid rule but if anything happens unless your insurance company gave you a written waiver for the code violation they absolutely have grounds to reject the claim.
I personally choose to take that risk in one of my garages but not in ones associated with the business. It's up to you whether the risk is worth it to you.
I called my agent and asked if straight up if I am covered with my wood stove in my garage. He said yes my insurance company is aware of it and I am fully covered. My company is foremost. That’s all I know. I told him of our forum talk here.
I ran a small fire in the grandpa last worked well with the exception of whatever he sprayed on it to attempt to clean it.
Got my metal for my baffle plan to cut it in the next couple days and fit it.
I’m not planning to run stove in fireplace mode so I might sell the screen. What should I ask for it?
Thank you all for the vast knowledge.
Ask him to show it to you in the policy. He is a salesman when it comes to claims he has nothing to do with it. Some insurance companies will just pay the claim. But it's a risk
He sent me my policy where it states that I have a wood stove in the garage. I understand the risk. I don’t do anything risky in there when stove is on.
I can see why it’s against code.
Please don't take this the wrong way I am not being combative towards you at all just trying to make sure you have your bases covered. And you a don't have to argue the code with me. I agree completely it is stupid. Does the policy say that the woodstove and any resulting damage is covered dispute the code violation? And are there any other sections excluding coverage on willful violations.
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