I went out to stoke fire yesterday and found my newly installed air separator leaking. The cast cracked at the bottom plug. I shoveled out coals and let the boiler cool down. I picked up a new separator and I am also installing 2 new aquastats as long as it is down. The current ones have not been accurate or dependable since my overheat last Feb. I am working on my overheat dump zone, I have a CI radiator on a secondary loop off my return line. I just have manual valves now but was thinking of just installing a circ with a battery and an inverter. I just need a relay to turn it on when the power goes out. By the way, what is an automag? I searched and could not find a description.
GW down on the coldest day this year.
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twitch
Member
An automag, I think, is like a zone valve that is normally open. With power on, it is closed, and when the power goes out, it opens to allow flow to the dump zone.
Trzebs13
Member
Yes an automag is a normaly open valve that closes under power. So power on, valve closed power off, valve open. There are also over normally open vone valves that can be used. May want to check around there not the cheapest thing.
sgschwend
New Member
I know what you mean about the aqua-stat loosing accuracy. Once they see an over stress condition they may not work reliably again.
I had a Honeywell dual hi/lo that I over stressed one side and it would not work properly again. I switch to a device that separates the measurement of temperature from the switches. If you take a look at the complex bend in those qua-stat parts you will see (I think) that any change in those geometries will render those part useless.
Now my "aqua-stat" measures temperature with a thermistor and there is a controller that drive the relay to switch. Provide a digital temperature reading too.
I had a Honeywell dual hi/lo that I over stressed one side and it would not work properly again. I switch to a device that separates the measurement of temperature from the switches. If you take a look at the complex bend in those qua-stat parts you will see (I think) that any change in those geometries will render those part useless.
Now my "aqua-stat" measures temperature with a thermistor and there is a controller that drive the relay to switch. Provide a digital temperature reading too.
I just switched out the aquastat and fired up the GW. It seems to be working just fine. Fergusson sent me an aquastat that had the same # but the differential was not adjustable. Doesn't seem to be a problem. The old stat would stick closed sometimes and I caught the temp up past 200*. Talking to my electrician friend, he recomended using a circ instead of a zone valve on my dump zone. He thought there was a check valve in the circ so it wouldn't allow flow if off. He is going to make me up a relay that will switch to my inverter and batteries.
sgschwend
New Member
Did you see the fella that posted the dump zone using a 40 gallon hot water tank? I think he said it did the job and only pulled in half the the water.
Trzebs13
Member
djblech, search out this in the Boiler room (Loading a Greenfire, Seaton Greenwood) I plumbed a gravity feed safty zone using a 40 gallon water tank, and works great. This way there are no batteries to maintain, switches to fail ect. Power goes off and the system starts working. Nothing ever to go wrong.
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
IMHO dump zones should be gravity fed, and not require ANY electricity to operate, and preferably be controlled by an automag, not a zone valve...
1. Electronics such as UPS units and inverters DO fail...
2. Seldom used pumps are failure prone... (Note that the good boiler controls have timers in them to "exercise" every electrical part in the system periodically if not actuated otherwise, people that don't do this will often find their circs have frozen up over the summer...)
3. Standard zone valves have the same issue, they tend to stick if not regularly exercised, and dump zones are hopefully NEVER exercised... Also zone valves have a tendency to be fairly flow restrictive, while a gravity system needs minimal restriction.
4. Automags are specifically designed for dump zone use - i.e. very reliable function when power fails, and low power draw in operation.
Gooserider
1. Electronics such as UPS units and inverters DO fail...
2. Seldom used pumps are failure prone... (Note that the good boiler controls have timers in them to "exercise" every electrical part in the system periodically if not actuated otherwise, people that don't do this will often find their circs have frozen up over the summer...)
3. Standard zone valves have the same issue, they tend to stick if not regularly exercised, and dump zones are hopefully NEVER exercised... Also zone valves have a tendency to be fairly flow restrictive, while a gravity system needs minimal restriction.
4. Automags are specifically designed for dump zone use - i.e. very reliable function when power fails, and low power draw in operation.
Gooserider
Trzebs13
Member
Gooserider, I must be missing something here. When I searched the web for "Automag valve" I came up with this site. http://www.automagzonevalve.net/ And the description states and I quote;
"5 Year Zone Valve Warranty
Normally Open means on those cold winter nights, if there is an electrical problem the zone valves are open and hot water can flow or gravity feed!"
Sounds like a Automag is a zone valve to me. They both run off of 24v so I can't say for sure but I doubt that the power usage is much different. And looking at the flow rates they are really about the same.
But with that all being said maybe they have a better reputation but most all of my other valves in the system are Caleffi. And like with any type of valve they should be open and closed once and awhile I would never , not check my blow off valves. Just as I would not leave this in the same position year after year. And lets face it a 5 year warranty really isn't saying much.
I can't agree with you more that it needs to be powered by god him self and the gravity he invented.
"5 Year Zone Valve Warranty
Normally Open means on those cold winter nights, if there is an electrical problem the zone valves are open and hot water can flow or gravity feed!"
Sounds like a Automag is a zone valve to me. They both run off of 24v so I can't say for sure but I doubt that the power usage is much different. And looking at the flow rates they are really about the same.
But with that all being said maybe they have a better reputation but most all of my other valves in the system are Caleffi. And like with any type of valve they should be open and closed once and awhile I would never , not check my blow off valves. Just as I would not leave this in the same position year after year. And lets face it a 5 year warranty really isn't saying much.
I can't agree with you more that it needs to be powered by god him self and the gravity he invented.
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
Trzebs13 said:
Hmmm, Maybe we can get one of the pros to chime in here and comment on it - I could have sworn the automags I've seen looked different, and had a much bigger pipe diameter and less restrictive design... I agree the valves on that website didn't look that much different from the standard Caleffi, Taco, etc. normally open zone valves, and I don't know that they'd offer that much advantage over one of them...
Gooserider
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