Harman Oakwood vs VC Encore

[blueberrypie]

I'm replacing a 20 year old warped and crumbling VC Defiant Encore. Liked everything but the catalytic. Thought that the Harman Oakwood would be the one, but the "Harman FireDome Tricks" recent thread has me wondering. The thread seemed to imply that owners observe quick and potentially damaging jumps in temperature and extended high temps during afterburn. It seems there is little guidance from Harman regarding operating temperatures, which is rather curious. This worries me, as I don't want to always wonder what the correct operating temps should be. One would think they would promote proper use based on the design of their products. It makes me question their integrity. Now, I'm back to considering another Vermont Castings. I don't like the theory of the new "two in ones", and would hope that I could get the last of the non-cats.

Any input from owners of these would be greatly appreciated. Harman owners, would you buy it again? If not, what would you choose? Any known problems with the current VC Encore? I really like the top loading, and would need significant persuation to go without that option. I would like a stove I don't have to constantly worry about overfiring. Easy cleaning is important. Efficiency is high on the list. Does anyone know the efficiency of the Harman?

I appreciate any advice you can send my way.

Thank you,

BP

 

[BrowningBAR]

I'm replacing a 20 year old warped and crumbling VC Defiant Encore. Liked everything but the catalytic. Thought that the Harman Oakwood would be the one, but the "Harman FireDome Tricks" recent thread has me wondering. The thread seemed to imply that owners observe quick and potentially damaging jumps in temperature and extended high temps during afterburn. It seems there is little guidance from Harman regarding operating temperatures, which is rather curious. This worries me, as I don't want to always wonder what the correct operating temps should be. One would think they would promote proper use based on the design of their products. It makes me question their integrity. Now, I'm back to considering another Vermont Castings. I don't like the theory of the new "two in ones", and would hope that I could get the last of the non-cats.

Any input from owners of these would be greatly appreciated. Harman owners, would you buy it again? If not, what would you choose? Any known problems with the current VC Encore? I really like the top loading, and would need significant persuation to go without that option. I would like a stove I don't have to constantly worry about overfiring. Easy cleaning is important. Efficiency is high on the list. Does anyone know the efficiency of the Harman?

I appreciate any advice you can send my way.

Thank you,

BP

I can not offer any opinions on the Harman Oakwood, but if you like top loading you might want to look at the new Jotul and the Quadrafire Isle Royal.

Isle Royal:
http://www.quadrafire.com/en/Products/Isle-Royale-Wood-Stove.aspx

Jotul:
http://www.jotul.com/en-us/wwwjotulus/Main-menu/Products/Wood/Wood-stoves/Jotul-F-50-TL/

 

[branchburner]

Wecome to the forums, Baked. Before you go with VC, consider that the worst experiences reported here with high temps on "FireDome-type" downdraft stoves are from VC Everburn non-cat owners: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/51821/

That said, the new stove may be great. I just talked to a dealer who had discontinued VC and just started carrying them again because of his confidence in the new management there. But if you want something tries and true, that's not it.

The Harman is a fine stove if you understand its quirks and are willing to deal with them. The temps we are talking about are high but my stove has never glowed. This is a stove meant for 24/7 winter heating, not casual off and on use, however. And depending on your chimney setup, it may draft harder than desired and burn more wood at higher flue temps than one might consider ideal. It is very efficient as far as burning smoke goes, and perhaps somewhat less efficient in transferring BTUs to your living space.

Your greatest efficiency will come from a cat. What don't you like about cat stoves? If I was to trade out my Harman, it would most likely be for a Woodstock cat stove. But if I had to choose another top-loading, non-cat, it would be the Quad Isle Royale.

 

[blueberrypie]

After reading your replies, I was up half the night reading stove info on line and my head is spinning.

Thank you for the the links, BrowningBAR. I was unaware of those stoves.

Branchburner, that's a very informative few words about the Harman. At this point, I'm reevaluating everything and not ruling anything out. I do burn 24-7 and don't have any unusual draft issues. The anti-cat thing is really due to the fragility of the fiberglass, the difficulty removing it from the old stove, and my husband's reluctance to follow the manual and dealer's advice regarding temps. Thus, I fear we may prematurely burn them out (even tried working with a cat thermometer and could never get the temp in the range - also couldn't read it easily). It just seems difficult. However, I will revisit this and perhaps have second thoughts.

I want to check into the top loading Jotul, and am reconsidering the PE Alderleas. I think I may be able to deal with a front loader if I can load north/south. I thought this was going to be easy. Thank goodness I found this forum, I'd be lost.

Many buckets of kindling to you!

 

[branchburner]

If you are ever in the mood for a nice day trip, take a ride up 91 to West Lebanon and visit the folks at Woodstock. I think their cat stoves may be less problematic to operate than yours. You will see a lot of happy owners on this site. Woodstock has a new stove coming out in 2011, but here's a link to their workhorse model: http://woodstove.com/index.php/fireview

I'll bet that new Jotul is a pretty good stove, too.

 

[BrowningBAR]

After reading your replies, I was up half the night reading stove info on line and my head is spinning.

Thank you for the the links, BrowningBAR. I was unaware of those stoves.

Branchburner, that's a very informative few words about the Harman. At this point, I'm reevaluating everything and not ruling anything out. I do burn 24-7 and don't have any unusual draft issues. The anti-cat thing is really due to the fragility of the fiberglass, the difficulty removing it from the old stove, and my husband's reluctance to follow the manual and dealer's advice regarding temps. Thus, I fear we may prematurely burn them out (even tried working with a cat thermometer and could never get the temp in the range - also couldn't read it easily). It just seems difficult. However, I will revisit this and perhaps have second thoughts.

I want to check into the top loading Jotul, and am reconsidering the PE Alderleas. I think I may be able to deal with a front loader if I can load north/south. I thought this was going to be easy. Thank goodness I found this forum, I'd be lost.

Many buckets of kindling to you!

As an owner of a VC cat stove I completely understand the "anti-cat" stance when it comes to VC. There cat setup is awful and costly. Other Cat stoves are not nearly as bad or expensive.

You may also want to consider some of the many side loaders that are out there. Jotul, Hearthstone, Quadrafire, Hampton, Woodstock and others all offer at least a few side loading models.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Two more top loaders (technically the same stove):
http://www.avalonfirestyles.com/product_guide/detail.aspx?id=263#accessories

http://www.lopistoves.com/product_guide/detail.aspx?id=240#Specs

 

[branchburner]

Two more top loaders (technically the same stove):
http://www.avalonfirestyles.com/product_guide/detail.aspx?id=263#accessories

http://www.lopistoves.com/product_guide/detail.aspx?id=240#Specs

Same burn technology as VC and Harman, though - I would (did!) take the Harman over either Lopi/Avalon or VC.

 

[begreen]

Both the Arbor and Leyden (basically the same stoves) are side draft units and have a refractory combustion chamber. If hubby doesn't read well, I would consider adhering to the KISS principle and get a single, control, easy to run stove.

 

[jdonna]

Hey BP,

I hope I can help in anyway and that you use due diligence in your exciting new purchase of a stove. I thought I did my homework and had all the bases covered, but did not wind up being so lol. One hard lesson I learned is no matter how high tech, efficient and feature laden a stove is, it is only as good as the warranty, the honoring of the warranty and the level, quality and service your stove shop will provide.

I have regretted the 2400 dollar mistake in hopes of 24/7 burning and am left with a hard to control, constant fiddeling and occasionally smokey now an ornament in my living room which will be target practice at some point ha. Not any extreme stack heights, negative pressure issues or anything else.

Not meaning to scare anyone, but the next stove will be one that has a money back guarantee, great customer service, can call and trouble shoot with and speak with the manufacture when needed and not going to a multi-corp company.

For every guys complaint about a down-draft style stove, there is some that seem to have success.

I'll trade a lot of features for a rock solid 24/7 burner that is easy to control, long burn times and well supported any day of the week. That is why I am leaning towards a CAT stove purchase in the future.

Good luck on your search and let us know what you get!

 

[CALJREICH]

I bought a VC Defiant non cat last Jan. I really like it. I looked at the Harman. The Harmon is nice looking but I don't know how it burns. My stove is in the basement and heats all 2400 sf of my house in the coldest of months. The Defiant will take up to 25 inch length wood. No problem getting long burns over night.

Someone mentioned Woodstock Soapstone. They are having a sale right now , $500 off their regular prices. They have some gorgeous stoves. They only take up to 16 inch length wood but if I was going to have a wood stove in my living room I think I wood go with the Fireview Wood. They have a money back guarantee 6 month in home trial. You can check them out at www.woodstove.com

I love my Defiant but I think I could love a lot of stoves. :cheese:

 

[branchburner]

... the next stove will be one that has a money back guarantee, great customer service, can call and trouble shoot with and speak with the manufacturer when needed and not going to a multi-corp company.

= Woodstock

 

[blueberrypie]

I'm going 'round and 'round and can see the advantages of many stoves, but which is right for me? Low(ish) maintenance, ease of operation, and easy loading are very important. At the moment the leading contenders are the PE Alderlea T5 and the new Jotul F 50 TL Rangely. The Jotul is overdue at a local dealer. I'm expecting a call to get their take on it and to see if they can get an updated arrival time. It has the top load, which I was ready to give up, and it can also be loaded north/south. Once I get a bit more info, I'll post a different thread with the hope of hearing from the PE and Jotul owners. I imagine most of you are aware of the youtube video for the 50 TL. It's very informative
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uUJUkILZ5Q
warning, it's 8 minutes +. Warm and happy holidays to you. Thanks, BP

(sorry, I will look up how to post a link)

 

[begreen]

That sounds like a fair selection. I suspect Jotul Maine is hoping to compete head on with the Alderlea series. How it will work as a stove, hard to say. But I have hope for it. The Alderlea T5 is definitely a solid, good performing stove.

 

[branchburner]

At the moment the leading contenders are the PE Alderlea T5 and the new Jotul F 50 TL Rangely. The Jotul is overdue at a local dealer.

I just happened to be in my local stove shop today - the Jotul F 50 release was set for 11/15 but the fellow said don't be surprised if it's several months.

 

[blueberrypie]

I just happened to be in my local stove shop today - the Jotul F 50 release was set for 11/15 but the fellow said don't be surprised if it's several months.

UGH! That folksy Jotul guy on youtube really sold me on it. I will wish for a Thanksgiving miracle.