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Harman P61a did not fire up right away? Any suggestions?

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Don2222, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Hello

    Still trying to understand these machines.
    I like how the auger pauses for a certain time in start mode so if the fire did not start it does not overfeed. Then the auger starts again after the first pause and the stove still tries to fire up. The auger paused a second time and then started again. After the third auger pause, less than 15 mins all together the fire did start. The pot was so full of pellets I had to rake some out. Therefore I like how smart and rugged this machine is, but what needs to be done so it fires before the 1st auger pause?

    In my fixup so far, I just replaced broken parts and gave it a general decent cleaning. I did not replace the door or ash pan gasket and I did not take out the exhaust impeller for a deep cleaning there. The ESP probe was cleaned.

    Therefore what generally can cause this delayed fire up?

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  2. roadking88

    roadking88 Feeling the Heat

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    had that happen to me ... the holes in the burn pot were plugged.. took a small allen wrench and cleaned the holes..
    also removed the wing nuts under the pot cleaned out the fines there..manual also says to bang the side of the burn pot to drop all the fines out.
  3. MountainSean

    MountainSean Credo Quia Absurdum

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    I will assume you checked the igniter to make sure it is getting hot. Double check for plugs in the air holes as was suggested and restrictions on the exhaust system as well. If that looks ok make sure that the cradle that holds the igniter is in good shape and is holding the igniter nice and snug up close to the burn pot and that the cover plate for the igniter access is tightly in place. Even if everything is perfect you are not guaranteed a start before the first auger pause, which is why that pause is programmed in.
  4. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Thanks guys

    I did put a new ignitor in, but I will check the burnpot holes. It worked fine before but I think there maybe some ash under the burnpot. Also I am getting a new door with a new gasket today. The gold door is just too shabby. I would like to get a Nickel Trim Kit, but to do that right, it means a new ash door and ash pan so the new tile frame will go on. maybe someday.
  5. Chain

    Chain Feeling the Heat

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    I would only add that I clean out the area under the burn pot every time I do my weekly cleaning. I just reach up in there carefully and push the ashes out so as to give the igniter room to do its thing. Too much ash buildup I've found severely hinders the igniter's ability to transfer heat to the pellets above. Just be careful of the wires that go to the igniter itself and make sure they're pushed back in their proper place so you don't crimp them when you replace the plate and wing nuts.
  6. Delta-T

    Delta-T Minister of Fire

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    you may have reassembled the igniter bracket incorrectly, which will prevent ignition.
  7. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    thanks but no, it worked the previous time fine.
  8. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Thanks

    I just vacuumed out under the burn pot but not too much ash. I have a nice attachment to the shop vac for it. I will see what that does.

    Attached Files:

  9. The Maine Stove Guy

    The Maine Stove Guy New Member

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    I know you checked it, but I'll mention that the Cover on the Igniter cradle can be put back on upside down which caused a reduction in air flow and causes intermittent ignition failure. Harman put out a tech bulletin on this a while back. Also there is a dip switch setting (on the control board)that changes the feed amount/rate, I've used that for cases of "slow" or smoky start-ups. The dip switch setting may be different depending on what generation of control board you have. Honestly, if it's starting on the first or second feed cycle you're probably well within what is expected. Factors like the pellet being used and your individual draft situation can effect it that much.
  10. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Good info on the DIP switches, I will check that out. thanks!
  11. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    if the burnpot, holes, and igniter area is clean, DO NOT interrupt the ignition cycle by opening the door- it resets things and compounds the issues.....but, usually the thing wont ignite when its dirty, tho I am sure Don knows that. Does the igniter get hot? See smoke? See some fines igniting first? Then its NOT the igniter.....although someone above correctly pointed out that it could be the igniter cradle (yup- could be)......
  12. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Thanks LW

    I cleaned under the burnpot but there really was not much in there. See above pic.
    I know that Harman stoves are not so critical on door gaskets like Breckwell and Magnum but this stove's old gold door gasket is old! I think that might contribute to the issue here.
    So I picked up a new black door with new glass and a new door gasket and painted the front, top and sides to give it a more updated cleaner look! LOL

    The new door and gasket is alot tighter!
    See pics below, I will try it again tonight.

    Attached Files:

  13. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    yea, Don, my door is from 1988, same gold door...and, oddly enough, still the original gasket! passed the dollar bill test yet again....as an aside, your new door has the newer rotary cam lock, MUCH better than the pawl bolt in the old one....I actually drilled out my door and retrofitted the rotary cam in mine....got tired of having to adjust if I spun the pawl a rotation or two too much
  14. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Interesting and good to know. Thanks again LW!



    I think however I may have found a real culprit here.

    The original Ash Door gasket looks pretty Skanky! It is 3/8" rope correct?

    I will be looking for some today.

    See pic below!
    Click pic to enlarge and see!

    Attached Files:

  15. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    So you know, when the Harman feeder stops at start up, the pellets should be at ignition level, even if the feed system needs to be purged, if your ignition is slow; the feed system will start feeding pellets on a 1/2 turn of the auger every 2 minutes or so. This is to raise the pellets up to the ignition holes if the pellets are of a longer variation and it also moves them about to free up some air space in the event the holes are obstructed by the surface area of the pellets. All perfectly normal. Only cause for concern would be if your stove is consistently stretching out into the 10-13 minute mark before flame. If so, whither the stove is very dirty, the fins on the igniter are obstructed or the igniter is partially burnt out.
  16. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Hello Scott

    Thanks for the advice, but in this case
    1. The stove is clean
    2. There was very little ash under the burn pot
    3. The ignitor is brand new

    The pellets start overflowing before ignition, so there must be another factor here. It may be the fire door and ash door gaskets. I have been so busy, I have not had time to try it. I painted 2 stoves yesterday, one at a customer's house and one that a customer brought into the shop! I used up alot more gasketing in my jobs lately so I will be getting more today. Customers are so amazed when the hardened and very frayed gaskets in their door and ash pans are replaced and the flame is so much more lively. :)

    So far I put a new door with a new upgraded CAM latch on the stove which has a new door gasket. Now I know that ash door gasket is very hard and pretty skanky looking, would you say so from the picture above?

    I also finally found a fix for the old Tile Frames!
    See details and pics
    http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/older-p61-with-broken-tile-frame-any-known-fixes.111107/

    Attached Files:

  17. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    Is your flipper/flapper working properly?
    Don2222 likes this.
  18. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Good point Smokey! I will check that next! You are correct, that could very well be the culprit too!
    You should fix stoves on the side. :)

    I still want to replace the gasket too.
  19. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    I prefer being a retired woodland critter, it cuts down on having to put up with a lot of stuff.
  20. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    You have an air flow issue. You ought to take a reading per the install manual and see what's up
  21. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    no, I am trying to find the right muffler adapter for the fresh air intake. I just got a new one that goes over that 2.5 inch Harman OAK flange, the other adapter went into the OAK flange and if it was accidentley pushed in to far it would stop the flapper valve from openning. LOL
  22. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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  23. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    With the new OAK adapter, The stove took 8 minutes from On to Fire, is that a little slow? How long does yours take?
  24. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    naw....8 minutes isn't terrible...
  25. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Thanks LW, I will try a new graphite impregnated 3/8" ash door gasket and time it again tomorrow.

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