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Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by cyclone, Oct 5, 2008.

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  1. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    I finally heard the AB sound your talking about after turning the fan off, sounds like air rushing in the back of the stove, but disapears after a few minutes, and reappears when you turn the air setting back up.

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  2. LisaP

    LisaP New Member

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    trump- I'm curious to know how it does overnight with vs. without your blower on. We did not get the blower, but have considered it. We are trying to move the hot air out of are living room and into back bedrooms. We are leaning towards installing a ceiling fan instead. I have also noticed we still have smoke coming out of the pipe when I'm certain it is in AB.
  3. cyclone

    cyclone Member

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    Before I posted no smoke equals afterburn.

    Yesterday I had time to play with the stove and now convinced I had the fire in afterburn and chimney was smoking some.

    All indications that the stove was in AB. Steady temps, ocassional flames, dancing flames??
  4. N/A N/A

    N/A N/A New Member

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    I think under some conditions, depending on quantity and type of wood used that you may only be able to get a few hours use out of the afterburn. Depending, any point after that what is left in the fire box is really mostly coals. I have had times that when I would load it up with pine or a wood like silver maple in only a couple hours time I only have coals. But dont get it twisted, this coal bed may be half the depth of the fire box or often times more. And the stove is still putting out plenty of heat and will continue to do so for several hours more. The only difference in the coals from fresh splits is that what is left in the fire box does not have the ability to produce the amount of smoke needed to keep the afterburn going. Its almost like the afterburn has the ability to suck the smoke producing capability out of the wood. So once the wood reaches this point in the burn cycle, there is little chance of it producing enough smoke to cause any kind of creosote issues. So I personally, at this point, dont panic if the afterburn is not working. I ether add fresh wood on top of the coal bed (and this is when I almost always get that very loud and defined jet engine sound) and kick it back into afterburn or I will just let it continue on the burn cycle.
  5. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    I would definitly go with the fan, as it pushes air up the back of the stove around the AF and out across the front of the stove so when you are sitting in front of the stove you can feel the hot air coming at you. Without the fan i would think you would send more heat up the chimney than is necessary, also when you have it on the highest air setting this stove makes a lot of heat and you need to get that heat into the room. I think the fan will help prevent the stove from overheating.
    I t may be smoke coming out of your chimney or it could also be steam, if it is very white its more likely steam driven out of a fresh load of wood. I getr some white smoke (or steam)while in AB mode right after i put in a fresh load of wood. But after a few minutes it disapears completly , Most importantly , no creosote and a clean chimney with this stove
  6. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    I get some white smoke (or steam) after i put in a full load of wood and i know the AF is working cuz i can see it ,but it disappears after a few minutes, the main thing is the AB means no creosote, i burn a lot of soft wood like pine and hemlock and NO creosote is just amazing to me some other wood stoves will creosote like crazy when you try to burn the wood slowly.
    HIgh air flow AB looks like little torch flames from every air hole ,low air flow and the whole thing glows cherry red.
  7. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    Your theory sounds about right , there is always air entering the secondary burn behind the AB and there is no way to control it, so it seems when smoke is present you get fire , no smoke and all you get is oxegenated flue gas. sometimes i can see almost every air hole in the AB through a tunnel in the wood and when the air flow is high and with a full load of wood above they all look like little blow torches burning through the smoke, and when the air flow is low the whole thing glows cherry red , much brighter than the rest of the coals which are depending on primary air at its lowest setting.
  8. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    Im having a problem keeping the AF lit on overnight burns, seems that after a few hours on the lowest air setting the stove temp(top loading door) will drop to about 250-300 and the AB goes out at this point.Then will start getting smoke and wood smell from chimney top. Will try to use a higher air setting tonight to keep AB lit. Possible not enough draft at the lowest air setting.
  9. LisaP

    LisaP New Member

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    We also have the same problem. We keep the air setting at 2, but fire is sometimes almost completely out in morning. It is still warm in the house though, so it still does its job. The furnace usually kicks on once in the morning, but once we reload its all good.
  10. MishMouse

    MishMouse Minister of Fire

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    The furnace for us does kick in a couple of times during the day normally after a 6-8 hour burn and depending on the outside temp. I own a manufactured home and the insulation in it is not as good as I paid for so when the temp drop it gets a little chilly.

    As long as you have good seasoned wood and a good coal base you should be able to obtain at level 1 at least a 8-10 burn with a full load of Oak with stove top above 400. I easily obtained these temps and burn times during Oct and Nov but, that was when the temps ranged from 30 - 50 above 0, now I am only getting around 6-8 hour burns on level 2-3, though the temp outside are ranging from -30 to 5.
  11. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    Tried level 2 for overnight, got a good clean burn for about 12 hours I guess i don,t have enough draft for the lowest air setting to get really clean overnight burn, uses more wood on 2 but gives more heat also, i can usually tell is the overnight burn was good by the condition on the firebox in the morning, if its sooty with patches of creosote i know my AB went out too soon, but on level 2 its nice and clean and the wood ashes are a powdery fluffy white. Also on level 2 the stovetop temp stays above 350-400.
  12. N/A N/A

    N/A N/A New Member

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    The only time I ever put it on the first setting is when I get that super deep coal bed with a fresh load of wood on top. It seams to do fantastic on that setting.
  13. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    I noticed that when i use softwood suck as pine and hemlock my stove top temp goes down as much as 100 Degrees.
    And the AB goes out quicker with soft wood than with hard wood.
  14. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    If you dont already have one get yourself one of those magnetic wood stove temp gauges. Its color coded for low temps (creosote range) and overfire (above 600F) IT will tell you what your stove is doing at all times. I dont turn on the fan or kick in the AB unless its above 400 ,thats on the top loading door. if it goes above 500-550 ill turn the fan on faster speed and cut down the air control to prevent overheating. My AB is always working above 400 and not working below 300-350.
  15. uptrapper

    uptrapper New Member

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    Same with me, on 3 it runs 450-475, and on 2 it runs about 375-400 on my magnetic gauge. I have only run mine on 1 a couple of times, not sure of the temps. If it drops to 350 I know it has stalled or is going to soon, until you figure out what stove top temp your stove stalls at you have to check for smoke. I have 2 gauges and have put them side by side and both give different measurements 40 or 50ish degrees difference most of the time. I scratched marks on the second gauge so if my primary gauge fails I don't have to learn the new temps I can just look at the scratch marks. If its supposed to be above 10 I set it on 2 if its below 10 I set on 3. I've never woke up when the house was below 68, and the boiler and electric heat has not been turned on at all this year. I love the stove and would buy another in a heartbeat, but it does take some trial and error to figure out how to run it properly. If it weren't for this site and the people helping me out I'm not sure I would have gotten the hang of it.

    Mike
  16. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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  17. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    ---------------------------------
    I tried your method of checking for heat at the top of the rear heat sheild at the back of the stove, works like a charm,no AB metal is barely warm, Once AB kicks in within a short time you can not keep your hand there for more than a second or two. i also make a tunnel with the wood so i can see the AB chamber from the front glass. the is no doubt when it lights up
  18. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    -----------------------
    Does anyone have any problem with the AB air holes getting clogged with wood ashes, it seem some of mine are not functioning. when i can see the AB in action some of the air holes are lit up and some are not?
  19. N/A N/A

    N/A N/A New Member

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    I have this problem. Harman tells us in our owners book not to stick any tools back in that area. But what they also dont tell us is how to clean that area out. If I would never clean that it would be packed full of ash by now. I found a way that I clean this area out and keep those air holes open that seams to work well for me. On the bottom of the opening below the first bank of small holes is a small lip. I will run the shovel back to that to remove the ash. Then I will take my brush that came with my stove set and "dust" the remaining ash from the location of the holes. If the stove is cool, I will simply do the same thing with my gloved hand. Have not had any problems to date by doing this. If anybody else has a better idea on how to keep this area clean I am all ears. I should also state, I refuse to spend $200 on an ash vacuum to do this.
  20. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    ---------------------------------
    I tried a shop VAC ,seems to work fine, can,t see how you could damage anything with a shop vac, Im having trouble getting my stove top above 500-550 , I have a reducer on the pipe cuz my chimney opening is only 5", i wonder if this could be the problem. i might try one of those steel wood cradles they sell for fireplaces that keep the wood off the floor of the stove, i think it would be good for viewing the AB chamber and also to keep the wood out of the AB chamber opening.
  21. MishMouse

    MishMouse Minister of Fire

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    I wouldn't suggest getting a wood cradle for the following reasons:
    1) you would have to get a very small one so you could fit it inside the stove
    2) adding burning hot metal to the inside of a stove may cause damage to the firebrick
    3) You would greatly reduce your box size

    Questions:
    How seasoned is your wood?

    Why are you sending it into a 5" pipe instead of a 6" pipe?

    How is your draft?

    Did the installer check your draft to ensure that it is pulling correctly?

    Suggestions
    Try using smaller splits then gradually working up to larger splits as you build a good coal base.
    Since you are sending it into a smaller pipe I would clean the pipe often especially if your wood is not fully seasoned.

    Actually for wood in the AB chamber, it seems to work better when you have a good coal base with some coals into the throat of the chamber.
  22. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    ----------------------------------------------------
    I am using this stove in a house that i am remodeling to sell,as far as installation , its just connect a few stove pipes and thats it.
    during the day i burn some of the old wood i tore out of the house (mostly softwood) at night i load it up with split seasoned hardwood several years old for an long overnight burn.The soft wood burns at the same temp as the hardwood but of course it burns up faster. THe inlet in the chimney is 5" ,and as i will seal it up before i sell the house im not spending the time to do it all over to 6" just for a temporary installation. I think the reason for the lower temps is the 5" inlet and there is only about 15 feet of chimney above the stove so not much draw distance. IT is working fine either way with good AB performance,and good heat output,i think ill forget the fireplace cradle cuz like you said it will just cut down on the size of the firebox, and i like to load the stove up pretty tight for overnight. THe only thing with the lower temps , i can only set the air no lower than the second notch from the left to burn overnight as the AB will stall on a lower setting. THis stove makes a lot of noise when it is heating up and cooling down,sounds like heat pipes expanding, i guess thats normal PS Even with pine wood and 2x4 scraps there still is no smoke while in AB mode, simply amazing!
  23. James04

    James04 Member

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    I have been away from the forum for quite some time. Therfore I have not read through this entire thread yet. So I do not know if this has been addressed. I have had my stove for a year and a half now. What I have found is that the stack temperature is the key to knowing what the AB is doing. My probe is I think 24" above the stove collar. One I get the stove up to temp and I then let the stack get up to about 1200. I then open the air full open, close the bypass and listen for the roar. If I get the roar I leave the air full open for ten min. The temp on the stack should have dropped below 1000. I then cut the air down to the half way mark and let it stay there for 10 min. IF the stack temp stays above 600 I can then continue to gradually close the air at ten min intervals. The key being to not let the stack temp drop below 500 to 600 deg. Sometimes it will continue to AB below those temps but it is a gamble. The sure thing is to maintain at least 550. I keep cutting the air until it is fully closed or if it is cold in the house on the first notch. Once the load starts burning down and there are less volatiles left in the wood the stack temp will start to drop and the stove top temp will increase until some point were the fire start to die down from all the fuel being used up.

    James
  24. LisaP

    LisaP New Member

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    We also let the flue temp get to 1100-1200 then switch into AB. But we did not think we were supposed to keep the air all the way open, we put into 2 or 3 slot right away. Maybe that is why our flue temp drops to 300 very quickly. I will try to keep it further open for the first 10 minutes.
  25. James04

    James04 Member

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    Lisa,

    I do occasionally reduce the air to half way after closing the bypass. That is If I am confident that things are going well. You will develop a feel for it over time.

    One of the more important things that I have learned. Is that the dryness of the wood is very key. What you may think is dry or seasoned may not fully be ready to burn optimally. One year for oak I would say is the minimum. Better two years then covered for a month or two before use. If not covered the whole time. If I through a load of kiln dries oak in the stove I can practically close the bypass soon after the wood catches fire and reduce the air and get a nice hot AB.

    I am currently forced to use wood that has not had the proper amount of time to season. What I find works best is to load the stove after a good bed is established. Then let the wood catch just a little and reduce the air down to the first or second notch. This causes the fire to kind of smolder but what happens is before the wood goes all a blaze and all of the BTU's in it goes up the chimney. The wood has enough time to get hot and evaporate the water. The moisture in the wood is what kills the AB. Only then do you open up the air to get a good blaze going before closing the bypass. In other words give the wood time in the stove before you attempt to get the stack hot enough to close the bypass. This has worked very well for me. I would say I let it smolder with visible flames but not over say 500 stack temp for about 30 min. Then open the air and get a nice blaze going up to 1100 or 1200. That will clean the flue and stove of any creosote that had formed from the half hour slow burn. I hope that makes some sense.

    James
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