HARMAN TL300 VS DUTCHWEST NON CAT CAST IRON

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Hey new here and I must say very nice and info packed site! I dont want to start a Chevy vs Ford war, but I am looking to upgrade from a englander stove to one of the stoves I listed above. I kinda like some options and styles that both stoves have to offer. So I guess I am kinda split between the two. Would like some feedback from those of you who have ether of these stoves of likes and dislikes advantages exc. And by the way, Tradergordo, If you happen to read this, GREAT videos on your dutchwest stove...they were a great help!

 

[MishMouse]

The Harman TL-300 is a top loader and a downdraft type stove. It has grill option that allows you to grill in the middle of winter.
It is a very heavy stove around 525 pounds and built really solid. I owned mine for over a month so far and am very happy with it, once the re-burn chamber is engaged you can easy get a 10 hour burn (stove top 400-450) with plenty of coals left for restart.
Search the comments area and you will find my review along with a few others of the TL-300.

Drawbacks:
The gasket cement on the door is not very good. You will need to re-glue the door gasket.
It takes a while to heat the stove and the flue enough to get the re-burn chamber going, (sounds like a jet engine when it kicks in). For me it kicks in right around 500-550 stove, which will be different depending on your installation.

Positives:
Grill option so far I grilled burgers (beef and veggie), chicken, hot dogs, polish and brats on it. Since it is a very high heat it seals the meat creating a very delicious product.
It is easy on wood, once you get the re-burn chamber active and running all you will see is a orange glow on the bottom of the wood where the coals are and a occasion burst of flames. Many times so far I go to the stove 8 hours after a re-load and it is still above 400 stove top.

 

[webbie]

The future of Dutch as well as the parts prices (they raised them out of sight) should figure in your decision. Right at the moment, the very existence of VC and Dutch is up in the air - they are in bankruptcy. When you buy a long term product during such a situation, it is wise to add something (like a big discount) for the risk you run.

This is second hand, but I have heard that Harman tuned their system to make it easier for average cord wood burning. Mishes review seems to indicate that. As to the Dutch, my main advice would be sizing - that type of a stove should be sized right or undersized - works best when used heavily.

If I had to make my own choice today, it would be the Harman....in the same type of stove, you also have the cast iron Avalon and Lopi units with crossdraft and the Harman Oakwood - but they are probably more expensive.

 

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Thanks guys for your info. Your very helpful. Just a few quick questions. When this after burn is kicked in on these type of stoves, is this something that will stay on through out the burn or will it kick on and off?? If left on and not operating is this something that will cause creosot in the chimney? Also because of the large clearance required with the Harman from the back wall, is it safe and acceptible to shorten this distance if a hearth wall pad type product is installed?

 

[MishMouse]

Thanks guys for your info. Your very helpful. Just a few quick questions. When this after burn is kicked in on these type of stoves, is this something that will stay on through out the burn or will it kick on and off?? If left on and not operating is this something that will cause creosot in the chimney? Also because of the large clearance required with the Harman from the back wall, is it safe and acceptible to shorten this distance if a hearth wall pad type product is installed?

I can answer your question about the after-burn.
The Harman seems to work best when it is colder outside easier to get the after-burn to kick in.
Depending on the temp of the flue when you put it into after-burn you may get a stall and the temps will start to drop, if it does just kick it out of after-burn and raise the temps again and try again. Depending on your setup it make take you some time to hit the sweet range when it activates. But once it is running you do not have to worry about any buildup and after it is running for 7-8 hours what is left won't produce any creosotee. As with any stove the best indicator of how you are burning is what is coming out the stack, if you start to see smoke the after-burn stalled. As for creosote when it is in after-burn the temps within it is about 2x to 3x what is on stove top so if you have any in there from the night before or from any stalls it is burnt away.

Example: When it is below freezing the after-burn will activate for me when the stove top is above 500, when it is above freezing I have to go to around 600 before it activates. Once you get the sound of the jet it should stay active throughout the burn. Last night it got into the mid-upper twenties and after 8 hours stove top was still above 400 and had plenty of wood left to get it going again.

James04 is another owner of the Harman TL-300, check out some of his posts as he lists some very good info on this stove.

 

[seaken]

Thanks guys for your info. Your very helpful. Just a few quick questions. When this after burn is kicked in on these type of stoves, is this something that will stay on through out the burn or will it kick on and off?? If left on and not operating is this something that will cause creosot in the chimney? Also because of the large clearance required with the Harman from the back wall, is it safe and acceptible to shorten this distance if a hearth wall pad type product is installed?

Once the after-burn starts it remains as long as there is fuel, or you disengage it. If you have the by-pass damper closed and the secondary burn is not ignited, then yes, you can build up creosote. The key is to build your coal bed, use well seasoned wood, fully charges the firebox, and then engage the after-burn. Monitor it to make sure the secondary burn is engaged. As mentioned by another poster you will need to go through some trial and error until you get it to work perfectly in your own circumstances.

Check the manual for the TL300 on page 8. You can use the NFPA-211 rules to reduce clearances. The NFPA-211 allows not less than 12" to a combustible. So, you can pick up 5" if you do it right. The Dutchwest can get as close as 14-1/2" to a properly protected wall.

Hey, you're in Pennsylvania, how can you not pick a Harman? [grin]

Craig is right, VC/Dutchwest is going through a bankruptcy so there is a lot of uncertainty at this time. Chances are these stoves will remain and continue to be supported by the new owners. But, no one can say for sure. Harman also went through a change of ownership at the end of last year. So far, we have not seen any changes in operation and we expect it to stay that way. We also saw VC change owners twice before and we continued to sell and support the brand. So, who knows? But, the Harman would be my choice at the moment. Or, the Lopi Leyden or Avalon Arbor cast iron wood stoves. They all use similar burn technologies.

Sean

 

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You guys are great...LOL ya I guess your right...Because I live in PA I should buy the Harman. But to be completely honest, the closest Harman dealer to me I visited and really was not all that impressed with them. But it was not just a stove shop they sold a ton of other supply type products there. And they guy I talked to really didnt know all that much about the stoves. The VC dealer I visited was great. Answered every question and offered a bunch of help. And to be honest thats what really got my attention and looking at the VC and DW brand of stoves.