Heat Loss in Primary Loop

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bpirger

Minister of Fire
May 23, 2010
632
Ithaca NY Area
I ask for a quick verification of my numbers....

4 gallons of water in a piping system. So 8 BTU/degree/gallon or with 4 gallons, 32 BTU/degree.

So if the water in the pipe is dropping 1 degree per second, that's 32BTU/sec*3600sec/hour or 115K BTU/HR loss. (Of course the water temp would be mighty cold in 100 seconds at this rate....) But if the water was maintained at this temp by, say a secondary loop injection, such that the temp. didn't drop, but when the heat injection is shut off, and the temp is measured to drop at this rate....it means it is 115K BTU/HR to maintain this temp. Right?

The rest is just the rest of the story....

Well, with my old piping (still in my system...), with the temp at 175, I measure 1 degree/sec drop when the injection from the Garn shuts down. That's an enormous loss!

Of course when it drops down to 130, the rate of drop falls considerably.

But without a doubt, it does seem like I'm dumping a boat load of heat into the ground, the air, the oil boiler, etc.

For those interested in what the setup is....I have about 80' of buried 1" pex line poorly insulated, which is in my PRIMARY LOOP, out to the oil boiler in an outside shed. Add the additional 20' of copper, at the boiler (outside) and the primary loop inside, that's about 4 gallons of water (0.04/foot for 1" pex). One of these days, I'll get around to switching over to the microflex that will replace this line. But it does seem like, given the 4 gallons in the line, and the drop of 1 degree/second measured on a sensor (the primary pump stays on when the injection loop shuts off), this drop is enormous.

So all the while I'm heating my floor, with hours of injection time every day, even with a degree every 4 seconds, that 30K/hour that is being lost. Or over say 5 hours a day, that's 150K.
 
1 degree per SECOND? In two minutes the water is well temperature (or ground temp). I think you have something off here. Regarding the BTU/hr, the capacity = 4 gallons and the loss over time seems to compute correctly (I usually use GPM and the delta-T between both end of the pipe). Do you have a piping diagram, particularly on the outdoor side? Does all of the flow go through the oil boiler or is it set up as a injection system like the Garn? Is the 20 feet of copper (x2 = 40LF) insulated? I calculated over 50K BTU/Hr in 2x80 uninsulated 1 1/4 copper. It was in the house so it was not "lost", but it made it harder to charge the 1000 gallons of storage.
 
Yeah, it is primarily uninsulated copper....and the 80' of pex is wrapped in those little foam sheaths and inside a 4" conduit. And yes, with the primary pump running, and when the hot water shuts off (injected into primary from secondary loop), and up at 175, the temp drops a degree a second...then slows down of course as it gets cooler. So without a doubt, switching over should be quite beneficial. Yes, oil boiler is fully within the primary loop, in serial. In the new system, I'll be able to keep it serial or bypass it....but still pull in a little water to keep it from freezing. Haven't used it since Nov 2010....might as well take it right out of the loop. It does sit outside in an insulated shed....so I have to worry about it freezing. Another a419 will fix that. I will plumb it so with a few valves it will also be secondary loop injecting into the primary.

I had forgotten the water in the oil boiler, so more like 10 gallons in the loop, dropping at 1 degree per second. This is what my sensor is saying on the copper pipe inside the house.

Haven't been around here much....hope all is well with everyone.
 
Insulate the copper and bypass the boiler - quick and cheap to reduce some of the heat loss. You are running a nice radiator setup in the outside building.
 
It's suprising how much heat you can loose threw uninsulated pipe.
 
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