Hello everybody. Need help with proper grate

[RtScout]

Hello folks. The lady and I stumbled across the forum looking for a fireplace grate to go into our, well fireplace. The hearth has three large square tubes running through it, I believe an air blower pushes air through them and then out through two vents. I purchased one from tractor supply but I know it is too small and the legs do not touch the floor as they just slightly ride on the other bars of that air system in the fireplace area.

I read that you measure the back and the front opening then the height in a couple different areas, but with that air system bars thing in there, I imagine there are grates made for that kind of setup?

The house was built in 84 if that helps any. Also, does that air system have an actual name? I posted some pictures, I hope they help.

Thank you so much.

 

[weatherguy]

Maybe try the grate wall of fire, some members have it and speak highly of it,

 

[Bad LP]

I'm just spitballing here but isn't the fire built directly on the steel tubes? That would explain the log stop in the front.

 

[RtScout]

I'm just spitballing here but isn't the fire built directly on the steel tubes? That would explain the log stop in the front.

I was thinking that, but the gaps allows the burning pieces to fall too easily. Maybe I could get two grates that can go in-between the tubes?

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[webby3650]

I’ve never seen a heat grate like that one. Typically there’s a fire back made from tubes also. Is there a blower that circulates air through the tubes?

 

[Bad LP]

I was thinking that, but the gaps allows the burning pieces to fall too easily. Maybe I could get two grates that can go in-between the tubes?

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There is heat in the coals. Looks very homemade IMO.
Like I wrote, just spitballing but think about this for a minute.
The further away the fire is from the tubes also places the tubes further away from the heat. More ash is more insulation from the tubes.
That all aside a fireplace is a waste of heat as we all know.

The fact that we know heat rises and both the intake and ‘assumed’ return are at the same elevation tells me the concept is 100% useless.

 

[jetsam]

I'm going to hazard a guess that maybe the tube steel in front is meant to be conducting heat through its body and convecting heated air through its middle? It looks like an aftermarket add-on to a built-in heat grate.

At the end of the day, no matter how much steel tubing is inside the fireplace, and no matter how much warm air comes out the grate, it's still an open fireplace blasting heated air out of the house.

I'd see about cutting all that stuff out and getting an efficient heater in that space.

 

[RtScout]

There is heat in the coals. Looks very homemade IMO.
Like I wrote, just spitballing but think about this for a minute.
The further away the fire is from the tubes also places the tubes further away from the heat. More ash is more insulation from the tubes.
That all aside a fireplace is a waste of heat as we all know.

The fact that we know heat rises and both the intake and ‘assumed’ return are at the same elevation tells me the concept is 100% useless.

The day I had a chimney sweep come out to clean I got called into work OT, so the lady was there. I reminded her to ask about the system, but she forgot.

As for it being homemade, could be. I know it does blow hot air once a good fire is going. I really do appreciate the help. This has been frustrating me for a long time.

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[RtScout]

I'm going to hazard a guess that maybe the tube steel in front is meant to be conducting heat through its body and convecting heated air through its middle? It looks like an aftermarket add-on to a built-in heat grate.

At the end of the day, no matter how much steel tubing is inside the fireplace, and no matter how much warm air comes out the grate, it's still an open fireplace blasting heated air out of the house.

I'd see about cutting all that stuff out and getting an efficient heater in that space.

I have just recently heard of those inserts. My biggest hangup on those is loosing the ash dump hole in the back of the fireplace and then taking it out through the basement. I know that is probably a minor thing.

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[jetsam]

I have just recently heard of those inserts. My biggest hangup on those is loosing the ash dump hole in the back of the fireplace and then taking it out through the basement. I know that is probably a minor thing.

Would you rather carry a little bucket up and down your stairs or have a 12" x 12" hole in your roof for heated air to vent from? There's reasons we had to figure out something better!

An open fireplace can be used as a heat source (I grew up doing this) if you tend it every few hours and use a tremendous quantity of wood. In a modern house, where it is "backup heat" or ambiance", there's little chance it is adding more heat than it is taking. It is constantly using a large volume of inside air, which was probably heated by a furnace, and whooshing it up the chimney, a process that only accelerates when you build a fire in it.

When you are actually heating a house with fireplaces, you get three options at night. One is to get up every few hours to add wood. One is to bank the fire and leave the flue open, which means hot coals in the morning but also the aforementioned big hole in the roof all night. One is to put it out completely and close the flue. None of them are great if you want to both sleep through the night and not have the water on your nightstand freeze.

Even a poor wood stove is such a leap for someone who is heating with wood. With a leaky old smoke dragon, you can bank the fire and damp the flue somewhat. You'll have much less air loss, a little heat all night, and hot coals in the morning. With a good modern stove, you can use a fraction of the wood and have good heat output all night without banking the fire.

 

[EbS-P]

If it were me I would lay a couple pieces of angle iron v pointed up parallel to the tubes. It would make a better base to build fire on and take up space that would just fill up with ash. Not sure about the size, if I would want one big piece or two smaller ones. I guess it depends on the size of the tubes and metal I could get.
Evan

 

[RtScout]

Would you rather carry a little bucket up and down your stairs or have a 12" x 12" hole in your roof for heated air to vent from? There's reasons we had to figure out something better!

An open fireplace can be used as a heat source (I grew up doing this) if you tend it every few hours and use a tremendous quantity of wood. In a modern house, where it is "backup heat" or ambiance", there's little chance it is adding more heat than it is taking. It is constantly using a large volume of inside air, which was probably heated by a furnace, and whooshing it up the chimney, a process that only accelerates when you build a fire in it.

When you are actually heating a house with fireplaces, you get three options at night. One is to get up every few hours to add wood. One is to bank the fire and leave the flue open, which means hot coals in the morning but also the aforementioned big hole in the roof all night. One is to put it out completely and close the flue. None of them are great if you want to both sleep through the night and not have the water on your nightstand freeze.

Even a poor wood stove is such a leap for someone who is heating with wood. With a leaky old smoke dragon, you can bank the fire and damp the flue somewhat. You'll have much less air loss, a little heat all night, and hot coals in the morning. With a good modern stove, you can use a fraction of the wood and have good heat output all night without banking the fire.

I understand now what you are saying. Thank you for explaining it a different way. Sometimes it does take a different approach to get down the same road.

What I think I am going to do for now is start pricing an insert and save for one. I might even stumble over one on sale.

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[RtScout]

If it were me I would lay a couple pieces of angle iron v pointed up parallel to the tubes. It would make a better base to build fire on and take up space that would just fill up with ash. Not sure about the size, if I would want one big piece or two smaller ones. I guess it depends on the size of the tubes and metal I could get.
Evan

I think I get what you are saying. Is there a certain thickness that should be used in a fireplace?

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[EbS-P]

The thicker the longer it will last. FIt will be a consumable item and eventually need replaced. Here is a link to an insert I have been pondering. Can’t find a better value anywhere else. I will be getting an insulation kit for the liner too but not sure from where. It’s not the most visually attractive insert out there but the price more than makes up for it. https://www.costco.com/escape-1800-wood-stove-insert-trio.product.100301403.html

Evan

 

[begreen]

I understand now what you are saying. Thank you for explaining it a different way. Sometimes it does take a different approach to get down the same road.

What I think I am going to do for now is start pricing an insert and save for one. I might even stumble over one on sale.

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What is your budget? There are some good value inserts on the market.

 

[RtScout]

What is your budget? There are some good value inserts on the market.

Hmm, that is a good question. If I had to do this today, couple grand. I was figuring of saving up a few more months and doubling that.

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[begreen]

If self-installing, there are some decent medium-sized inserts in the $1200 range. These would be by Englander, Drolet and Century.