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Help configuring hydraulics

Post in 'The Gear' started by blacatmark, Nov 14, 2007.

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  1. blacatmark

    blacatmark New Member

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    Please Help !!!

    I am building a wood splitter from scratch. Before I make a major mistake or waste money on the wrong parts, I would like to know in what order / sequence the following components that I already have, should be connected:

    A 2.8 gallon hydraulic oil tank with an optional suction strainer, both are ½ N.P.T.

    B 20 G.P.M. Return line filter with ¾ N.P.T.

    C Haldex 2 stage, 16 G.P.M. Pump, (SpeeCo # HC390709).

    D 2 way valve, 30 G.P.M., 2000 psi fixed relief, ½ N.P.T.F. Working ports.

    E Red Lion welded cylinder, 2500 psi, 24” stroke, 4” bore, model #40WC24-200.

    Also, what type / rating of hoses and fittings should be used?

    Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank You, Mark

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  2. babalu87

    babalu87 New Member

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    A to C to D to E to B

    Double the working pressure so call it 5000lb hoses and fittings
  3. blacatmark

    blacatmark New Member

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    Thank you for that info.
    What would be a recommended piping / hose layout for this?
    Mark
  4. babalu87

    babalu87 New Member

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    Oh I dont want to go that far with it. I just know the order the parts should go in and working lines should be double what the working pressures are. There should be someone along shortly
  5. blacatmark

    blacatmark New Member

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    Thanks again.....
    I think I found what I was looking for by looking at the valve manuals on the "Prince" hydraulic web site. They show typical hydraulic circuits for each valve they offer.
    I was not able to get any info from "Northern Tools", Monarch (Red Lion) or SpeeCo.
  6. Corey

    Corey Minister of Fire

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    She's gonna be fast with that 16GPM pump, but 2000psi fixed relief valve??? That's only going to get you about 12 tons of force. If it's not cast in stone, you may look for a valve with an adjustable relief so you can at least match the 2500psi cylinder that would get you a little over 15 tons - or chuck the valve and the cylinder and go with 3000 psi components to match the pump output which would net over 19 tons.

    Either way, post up some pics when it's done!
  7. reaperman

    reaperman Member

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    I'm no Hydraulic expert, but is your tank going to be large enough?? Under 3 gallons of fluid with a 16gpm pump seems like your fluid could get a bit warm.
  8. Corey

    Corey Minister of Fire

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    It will definitely warm up some - that is about the capacity I have in my splitter, then the cylinder, hoses, valve, filter, etc hold almost another 2 gallons. Usually, I'm ready for a break after a tank of gas, so I go cool down along with the splitter.
  9. blacatmark

    blacatmark New Member

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    Thanks for all the responses. I wish I had asked you guys before, but I had no idea this forum existed until yesterday. If I monitor the temperature, is there a way to do it without making a penetration into the tank?
  10. Corey

    Corey Minister of Fire

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    There are several ways to go about it - magnetic thermometers, liquid crystal 'stick on' thermometers, infra-red non contact thermometers might all be possible ways to go about it. Other possibilities would be to put a thermal 'snap switch' or limit switch on the outside of the tank and just wire your ignition grounding wire from the engine (you are using an engine, right?) through it - you'd automatically shut down the engine when the fluid got hot. Just don't forget that is why it shut down! If you are going electric, I'm sure the switch could be wired through a relay for the same effect. Or you could probably just use and old thermometer and dip it in the tank for the first couple of runs until you get a 'feel' for how it's working.

    Either way, I'd say you probably want to stay around 180F as a limit.
  11. blacatmark

    blacatmark New Member

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    Thanks for that info. I am planning to use either a 6 or 7 hp Tecumseh snowblower engine. Where could I get a thermal ‘snap switch’ rated for 180 degrees?
  12. Corey

    Corey Minister of Fire

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    What do you have available? Grainger and/or McMaster supply come to mind. You might also look at some of the surplus electronic shops like meci.com, allelectronics.com, etc. A local HVAC place might be another resource. Most of the small engines I have seen have a wire that comes right off the ignition coil (not the spark plug wire) the wire is hooked to a small switch and when the switch is grounded, the spark is cut. So you would be looking for a "close on rise" switch to hook to this wire.
  13. blacatmark

    blacatmark New Member

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    Thank you again for your help. I found a good working temperature gauge that I intend to put into a HP "T" on the discharge side of the valve. I am also putting a 3000 lbs pressure gauge in a HP "T" on the discharge side of the pump. I picked up all my made to order HP hose assemblies today, what an expense! When this rig is finished, I will post pics.
  14. triptester

    triptester Feeling the Heat

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    A 2-stage 16 gpm pump normaly requires at least 8 hp.
  15. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    A very true statement, but.....if he stays with the 2000 psi relief valve (instead of the typical 2250, or 2500), it may pull it. The only other question is, will the 6 or 7 hp engine have enough grunt to shift the pump from the low pressure side to the high pressure side (without stalling first). It completely depends on where the factory set the change over point. I think it will, but at least be aware that this is a possibility.

    Oh, and stick with 2500 or 3000 psi hoses. 5000 psi hoses might require you to refinance the house.
  16. blacatmark

    blacatmark New Member

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    Thanks for the input. When I get this running, very soon I hope, it will be put through its paces and the results will be here for everyone to see. By the way, I recently purchased some "Seasoned" wood from T.J.Barkmulch. Be aware that they store it outside in a big pile. It is very wet and dirty, unless I use some dry wood to burn with it, the wood will not burn by itself. You can here it hiss all the time.
  17. DennisR

    DennisR Member

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    You could go electric instead which will allow you to reduce your horsepower requirements because AC (or DC motors too) motors can develop more horsepower than what is stated on their nameplate for short durations without overheating. A gasoline engine is rated at its absolute max, so you must size a gasoline engine to the worst case load where as with electric you size it to the RMS horsepower (more info: http://www.motorsanddrives.com/cowern/motorterms9.html). For AC motors the torque of interest is the breakdown region. As long as the load does not exceed this region, the motor will still be rotating. Single phase AC motors do not make max torque at zero like NEMA design D 3-phase motors and all DC motors do, but instead as stated its max is at the breakdown region which is typically at 80% of no-load speed. No load would be at about 3600 RPM and full load is at 3500 RPM (at rated horsepower on nameplate). So 3600*.8 would bring the speed down to 2880 RPM (horsepower is higher as well).

    Here is a motor #131616 at http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/single_phase_OPDP.htm. I looked up it specs and at full load of 5 Horsepower it turns 3500 RPM. Its breakdown torque is 17.5 Ft*Lbs so (2880 RPM*17.5 Ft*Lbs) / 5252 = 9.6 horsepower peak. So this motor can replace up to a 9 HP gasoline engine.
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