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Help me choose a new-fangled circulator pump (or tell me to stick with my 007)

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by avc8130, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. Bob Rohr

    Bob Rohr Minister of Fire

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    Coal plants are being shuttered because they are inefficient and much more expensive to replace than the modern combined cycle NG plants. With gas fired power plants the thermal energy gets recycled to boost efficiencies. Another big feature of the NG plants is they can ramp up almost instantly. So when extreme hot weather overloads the grid with AC loads, the NG plants are online right away, and ramp off quickly also. Some would suggest the extreme warm weather the nation is seeing is caused by the dirty coal plants worldwide, so maybe there are two wins in shuttering inefficient coal plants?

    Electricity will be generated with the least expensive options first, hydro, nuke, coal, then NG. But with all the fracking and NG glut to the point where we are exporting it, NG could be the bridge energy until a better, cleaner, faster fuel comes online. It's not just the EPA, it's the arithmetic.

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  2. wrightk20

    wrightk20 New Member

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    Sorry for interrupting this thread but reading this has made me wonder about a few things. I have a Royall outdoor boiler that is piped to my house and i have a grundfos 15-58 3 speed pump in my basement and this pumps all the time. Would it be beneficial for me to look into an ecm pump to maybe use less electricity? If what i'm thinking is correct if the pump varied the current and flow to get a certain delta T then when my furnace was not calling for heat it would back way off and run at the minimum until the furnace fan kicked on and then ramp up to maintain. Since my system has only one pump i would think it would be benificial to maintain some kind of flow at all times. Kevin
  3. Jeff S

    Jeff S Feeling the Heat

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    I have an update on my Taco 007, it has been connected to a kill a watt for 720 hours which is exactly 30 days and it has used 28.7 KW . In my area electricity is around 8 cents a kill o watt but when you add the taxes and other charges it comes out to 12 cents.

    So here is the total for a months use 28.7 X .12 = $3.44
  4. kopeck

    kopeck Minister of Fire

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    $3.44 to stay warm, not to bad.

    If you moved to an Alpha what's the realistic savings over the 007? I'm thinking it would take a bunch of years to make it back. If anything I would just run the 007 until it dies then think about upgrading.

    K
  5. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    I hate to quote myself here, but this is what I was talking about. You are not going to get back the investment on a VS pump in a residential system. This is a general rule and is, of course, dependent system configuration and zone length etc etc....

    The proof if here
    Cost/Kwh is a driving factor, as well as ZV or circulator base system. Even if you halved that $3.44 with a VS pump you'd save $1.72 a month. Long time to recoup the extra $$ for the smart circulator. Plus if I may, a smart circulator could IMHO be less reliable in the long term due to more parts and circuitry. This does not by any means mean that I would not have one if it would save some real money, just pointing out a fact. If we are splitting hairs then I'd go with the KISS formula and a 007, if a real money saver (like gasser vs smoke dragon) then technology wins!

    TS
  6. JP11

    JP11 Minister of Fire

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    Got simple OOR, 007, and 0011 pumps in my system.

    Got a 00R and a 007 sitting on the shelf.. just in case. I've talked my wife thru a oil boiler nozzle change on the phone.. bet she could do a pump.

    JP
  7. The other and I think bigger advantage to a VS pump is that it should reduce short cycling of the boiler. Which will help pay for the upgrade quicker when burning oil. But still helps a wood boiler burn more efficiently.
  8. SmokeEater

    SmokeEater Feeling the Heat

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    I can't speak to the efficiency of the ECM motor over the traditional VS motors that Taco used in a couple of pumps that I have in my system. The boiler pump is a 007 delta T and is set with a delta T of 20* F. The boiler aquastat is set to 185*F and the 007 only pumps to a 100 gal buffer tank. The system pump is a 0012 delta T and pumps to the low temp radiant and the high temp baseboard and modine. Its sensors are measuring the delta T, again 20*F on the supply and return lines. It's my understanding that the pumps move more water as the temperature differences approach the set delta T. These 2 pumps are very quiet and seem to function just as I had planned.
  9. TheMightyMoe

    TheMightyMoe Minister of Fire

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    Makes sense to me, the savings come from burning efficiently, not electricity. Would take some work to figure out exact/semi savings.
  10. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    I guess I'm not making the connection of how burning efficiently is related to the flow through the boiler. I would think fire side settings would have to do with burning efficiently.

    TS
  11. JP11

    JP11 Minister of Fire

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    Exactly.. BTUs are BTUs.. how good you transfer the heat from firebox to water is a variable.. nothing to do with the pump.

    The only REAL thing we are talking is.. are you better off spending more money on a pump, so you have a pump that will SLOW itself down so as to keep a more efficient delta T of 20.

    Well.. with two more temp sensors to break, and more wire around the boiler that is vulnerable.. Probably not worth it.. FOR ME. To each his own.
  12. I agree there won't be much if any fuel savings for a indoor woodboiler with indoor storage. But a typical oil boiler will cycle less often with a delta t of 20. Which means there will be less standby losses up the flue. Taco claims an average consumer will save 50-60 dollars a year in fuel costs. And increase comfort presumably because there will be less variation in the house temps.
    http://www.sdsmarket.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/spec_00-vdt_benefits.pdf

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