horse hair plaster

[begreen]

I have the same concerns. Perhaps a jacketed, front loading stove like the Jotul Greenville, PE Alderlea T4 or Enviro Boston would be a better fit here. These are convective stoves with most heat coming from the top and front.

 

[Grisu]

How about the Quadrafire Cumberland Gap? It can be rear-vented, is available in a black matte finish, cast-iron jacket, it has smaller firebox but is also not as wide as the F600.

Other option would be to put the stove completely onto the hearth. Or to put an insert in there, with a custom surround that goes behind the mantel. May actually not look that bad; some photoshopping may give you an idea how that would look like.

 

[jeepnerd]

The boxes I made are including the exhaust part of the stoves. What I mean is the plywood box is from the glass to the rear edge of top exit exhaust. The stove itself is 16", the rear part adds another 8". By pushing the stove out 16" it'll put the stove out far enough to open the side door so it wont be inside the fireplace. In the thread Grisu mentioned about front loading only, a couple members said they had Oslo's installed that way. Shari mentioned that the picture in his avatar, his stove was half in and half out. Nick Mystic had a nice picture of his Oslo that I'm tacking the liberty of shoeing you, I hope it doesn't upset him.
I've also marked the box, the back edge of the blue tape shows the rear of the main part of the stove.
If you guys still think it's to tight, I may have to go back to the Greenville or even the Castine F 400.

 

[jeepnerd]

Grisu, you mentioned contacting Jotul, I didn't see any contact information on there website. Do you know who to email them?

 

[jeepnerd]

Begreen, Grisu, I just noticed your last posts. I'll check out the stoves you mentioned. I was hoping for the Oslo only because it's a "large" stove, and this is a big old house.

 

[Jags]

Seeing it with your blue tape lessens my concerns of overheating. Now you just need to cross your T's and dot your I's for the C to C measurements.

 

[Grisu]

I was wondering a bit why the Oslo was so bulky in your pictures, now it makes sense. Installing it outside of the fireplace while observing all required clearances may be your best (only?) option. You may need to pull it out a bit more as I am not sure if the clearance to the lath is sufficient yet. If you don't like that idea you may need to go for a smaller stove that can be safely installed there. While a large stove would be desirable in your case, you don't want to heat your house with a roaring fire in your living room. Let's see what your installer recommends. Is he also the Jotul dealer? You may need to go through him to contact the company.

 

[jeepnerd]

Good news. The installer was here today. They are a Jotul dealer. He saw no problems with clearances. He says he has an Oslo in his house, so he know exactly what to expect from the stove. Another thing that I like about him is he is also a fireman. I talked to him about my idea of putting Rock Wool insulation inside the void between the wall and the mantle before I fill it with brick and mortar. He didn't think it was necessary, but wouldn't hurt. I'd like to have them install the new insulated liner, including top plate, cap ect. and final hook up. They took some measurements and are going to get back to me with a price. I've had one other estimate, If they're close, I'm going with them.
The biggest part of this project is going to be the new hearth extension. I'm planning on removing the 1 1/8" thick floor to make it flush. The stove will be sitting on the edge of the original hearth, which buts up to a floor joist that you see in my picture.
The stove is designed for ember protection only, the stove itself will be on an actual hearth. The extension will be 1 1/8" thick non combustible material with no spaces for any stray embers to reach wood framing. I may even add sheet metal over wood framing for extra insurance. If I'm clever enough I'd like to put an air gap in, but 1 1/8 doesn't give me a lot of space to do that.
How much heat transfer can I expect through an extension set up this way? The installer said I'll have no problem. He said I might get a little over 100 degrees and that the flash point of wood is around 400, but even then I would think you need a spark to reach it?

 

[jeepnerd]

I may start a new thread soon since this isn't about horse hair plaster any more. Please keep an eye out you all have been a huge help.

 

[Jags]

Along with the top plate, don't forget about an insulated block off plate. No reason to send perfectly good heated air up that stack.

 

[jeepnerd]

I'll be in charge of the block off plate. Once I cut my hole for the liner how would you seal around it?

 

[Jags]

Mechanically fastened (tapcons, masonry nails, etc) with high temp caulk at the edges.

 

[jeepnerd]

What about where the liner passes through? Should I leave a gap so the pipe has a little wiggle room? Or seal it tight with stove calk?

 

[Jags]

The idea is to keep the heat from going up the stack. I wouldn't make it squeaky tight, but wouldn't intentionally leave a gap. A little gap here or there won't make much difference. Remember, you have insulation above the block off plate and the block off is just securing it in place.

 

[begreen]

There are several example links in this wiki article.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/

 

[Jags]

Excellent, BG - I don't know why I never remember to add that link.

 

[Ashful]

Is hoarse hair plaster considered comustable?

Not sure how it's considered by NFPA or any other authority with jurisdiction, but I can say I've seen quite a few fireplaces porridged with the stuff, including the one I'm sitting in front of as I type this.

The hearth is stone about an inch thick. I don't know if it's slate or marble. It's all sand underneath. the narrow piece of stone for the mantle has what I've heard called a hearth extension.

Completely normal, but an older style (sand box) than I recall you claiming this house to be. What's odd is that flooring doesn't appear very old, yet it appears the hearth was extended using the sand box, AFTER the flooring was installed. Could have been some half historical-savvy homeowner in relatively recent past, who decided to extend his hearth "the way it would've been done in the day," and got his periods mixed up.

Edit: thinking back to a basement photo posted in another thread , I'm actually thinking now the sand box might be old, then someone floored over it later, and even more recently someone cut the flooring to add back some of the hearth extension. Just a guess, without being there to see it directly.

I dug out the back since it was loose ruble. It's about 16" deep till I hit the arch in the basement.

Same as mine. I think this is probably common to any rubble-built house.

After a trip back to the stove shop I realized the Oslo would fit. Since it's a larger stove I'd like to make it work. This is a big old house with high ceilings and drafty windows, the room also leads to the main hall with the large stair case.

If it's "big, old, and drafty," you're going to need a small army of Oslo's to keep the place warm, without continuing to rely on other heating for the majority of the load, particularly set back into fireplaces. I'm running two Firelights around the clock (I'm talking a cord of wood every ten days kind of burning), and I can't keep this big old joint warm. Our ceilings are only 8' on the first floor and 7' on the second floor. Our 1770's windows are in good repair, with a mix of traditional wooden and triple track storms all around, and we're still burning 1000 gallons of oil per year ON TOP OF the aforementioned cord per ten days appetite for wood. I'm a huge fan of Jotul, but no little Oslo is going to keep your big old drafy house warm. Think bigger... much, MUCH bigger.

I did look at most of the big name manufacturers, most just won't fit right in the opening. I've really have my heart set on Jotul. They have the right look, detentions, and reputation I'm looking for.

I think Jotul is the only choice for an old house. There is really no other stove as functional and reliable, that looks right in an old house. Just don't expect it to be more than a little supplemental heat for the room its in!

I would be concerned with the Oslo going thermonuclear with that tight of spacing. Even if somehow you could meet the C to C clearances I don't see how you could move enough air around that stove to keep it from overheating.

Ditto. The fireplace install is always a tempting option, but that's a might small fireplace to hold a wood stove of any appreciable size.

My two Firelights:

 

[begreen]

I think Jotul is the only choice for an old house. There is really no other stove as functional and reliable, that looks right in an old house. Just don't expect it to be more than a little supplemental heat for the room its in!

Have to disagree with the Jotul statement. They make fine stoves. I've owned three and liked them, especially the Castine. However, they were not the end to beat all stoves. Like any other stove, each has its strengths and some caveats. The gothic arch designed grille is sometimes not the best match architecturally for some period houses.

There are several good looking and functioning cast iron stoves that look good in older homes including the Hearthstone Shelburne, Hampton H300 and Quadrafire Isle Royale. And the jacketed cast stoves are excellent too, including those made by Jotul, Quadrafire, Pacific Energy and Enviro. The best looking stoves IMO are still those made by Vermont Castings, particularly for an early American home. The Encore cat is an exceptionally handsome stove. There are also the Woodstock stoves. The Fireview has a Victorian look that goes well with that period house. The Palladian could nicely echo design elements if the house has Palladian style windows throughout.

 

[Ashful]

That's why they have so many choices, begreen! With the exception of VC, I don't think any of the stoves you mentioned are on par with Jotul in cosmetics, and no one's recommending VC on performance or reputation.

 

[begreen]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think the other stoves are very good lookers too, some better than others. Not every home or person goes with the gothic arched design.

 

[Grisu]

I think Jotul is the only choice for an old house. There is really no other stove as functional and reliable, that looks right in an old house. Just don't expect it to be more than a little supplemental heat for the room its in!

I have to agree with BeGreen here. Just because you like the look of a Jotul in an old fireplace, it does not mean that everyone has to share your opinion. That would be a poor world indeed where everyone has the same taste. Although I am not a big fan of the Woodstock design, I photoshopped the Progress into the fireplace only to see how that would look like. I can certainly see how that combination would have appeal to some people. In the end, every homeowner has to decide for themselves how they want their home to look like. Luckily, there is no "aesthetics-authority" yet.

 

[firefighterjake]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think the other stoves are very good lookers too, some better than others. Not every home or person goes with the gothic arched design.

Unabashed Jotul lover myself . . . but gotta agree with Begreen . . . there are many other manufacturers that have designs that look just as good and are just as good.

 

[Ashful]

It's okay guys... they make stoves for folks with poor taste, as well! ;-)

(I hope you all know I'm just teasing.)

Happy Easter!

 

[jeepnerd]

Thanks for all the responses. Joful, I was wondering if you pop up, your information on my last post was very helpful. With out going into the history of this old house a lot, which I have a lot documentation that my grandfather acquired over 60 years of living here, the part of the house we're talking about could be as old as mid 1700's. At some point there was a fire in the house, probably in the 1800's which is why the floor doesn't look old to you. I'm impressed how much you've picked out just by looking at the pictures.

The installer that stopped by said he doesn't consider the plaster to be combustible, even if it was I have the required clearance.

I'm not trying to heat this whole house with one stove. The part we're talking about is going to be our main sitting room. Living in Delaware we usually don't get very cold winters, although this one was very cold. I have steam heat with a natural gas furnace that really works well, the colder it gets the better it heats the house. The natural gas conversion saved me half per month compared to oil. With that said, I don't expect gas to stay cheep forever, What fuel source has? All I'm hoping for is to be able to turn the thermostat down, and have one nice warm section of the house. In the room on the opposite side of the main hall is another fireplace that could have a stove installed in it too, but that a whole other project I don't even want to think about right now.

I've pretty much decided on the Oslo, set out to have the main part of the stove outside the opening. I'm totally one the Jotul train, although, I'm keeping an open mind to the others suggestions, and am going to look into them.

Grisu, That's a cool trick, I'm going to have to learn how to do that photoshopped thing. I looked at the soap stone stoves, they're not for me.

My goal is to have this stove running by Christmas, doing the interior work myself while having a pro do the liner, roof top chimney work, final hook up, and approval of interior work. I'm going to break this up into different phases and posts on this site.

My main concern right now is the joist that my hearth extension will be over. It'll be 1 1/8" thick. How hot would the underside have to get before I should worry about the floor joists? Firefighterjake, the installer that came to my house was also a firefighter, which makes me trust him. He saw now problems with the hearth extension. What would you say the flash point is of 200+ year old oak beams?

 

[Ashful]

With regard to flash point, there are too many variables. As you've probably gathered from looking at wooden lintels, mass and surface roughness are major factors, but don't discount the effect of continued and repeated exposure to heat, on lowering the temperature of combustion. Lots to read on this subject, if you're interested, just Google "pyrolysis."

However, isn't the Oslo an ember only stove?