House Fire,Possibly by Pellet Stove.

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by John C., Jan 9, 2013.

  1. John C.

    John C.
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2012
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    4
    Loc:
    Wethersfield Ct.
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. smoke show

    smoke show
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Don is that you? ;lol
     
  3. CT Pellet

    CT Pellet
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    501
    Loc:
    Torrington, CT
    Sad to see this happen. Fortunately, she is not homeless and is able to stay with family. With situations like this, it can be very tempting to publically speculate on forums like this as to what happened. Let's follow this story but try to resist the "what probably happened here is..." comments. Everyone, keep your stove clean, respect the fire and be safe.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  4. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    8,872
    Likes Received:
    634
    Loc:
    Sand Lake, NY
    Around here, you never read about what caused fires.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  5. mralias

    mralias
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    962
    Likes Received:
    203
    Loc:
    MA
    I would be interested in what Smokeythebear has to say about this after he watches the video. From what I can see the venting looks interesting.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  6. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    13,363
    Likes Received:
    1,662
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    They never provide decent pictures of things and the only way you'll find out what caused the fire is to get a copy of the fire marshal's (or fire department's) investigation report which are public records. It is rare for the media to do a follow up on such stories.

    Interesting color inside the termination cap.

    I can't say as I care for the up portion being outside but as long as you keep up with the cleaning there shouldn't be an issue.

    Not much to go on from those pictures and stuff has been moved or removed
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  7. mralias

    mralias
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    962
    Likes Received:
    203
    Loc:
    MA
    I guess I'm a little surprised the fire extended into the walls so quick. Something had to be opened, like the hopper or the firebox or at least a leak in the venting in order to spread. Perhaps a shopvac with hot ash next to the stove. Who knows? Like everyone is saying it is difficult to guess what happen. Too many variables. It would be nice to know so we can learn from others misfortune.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  8. Don2222

    Don2222
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    7,797
    Likes Received:
    463
    Loc:
    Salem NH
    Sure is tough to say what happened, but the news said flames were coming from the pellet stove! ! ! I do not like installs with outside vertical rise, it should be on the inside.

    Interesting part about that is, I worked on a Thelin Gnome stove and the inspector said because it is a prefab Modular house and the vertical rise MUST be on the outside!

    Then I started taking the pipe off the stove and the inside thimble fell off because the screws did not hit a stud and there were no anchors! LOL Something the inspector missed but I fixed it!

    The fireman says the fire appears to be accidental. What does this mean? Not arson?
     

    Attached Files:

    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  9. briansol

    briansol
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,913
    Likes Received:
    293
    Loc:
    central ct
    I must admit, i do feel a bit safer having my stove as an insert. Even if the thing goes up in flames, its in the fireplace deisgned to hold a fire. It may be a flase sense of security, but i figure if its going to burn, that's the safest place for it to be.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  10. bbfarm

    bbfarm
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    91
    Loc:
    wisconsin
    can someone explain the preference of the rise being inside vs outside? just curious.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  11. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    13,363
    Likes Received:
    1,662
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    The colder outside setup will cause more ash to settle out inside the venting instead of being dumped outside the venting is one difference.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  12. Delta-T

    Delta-T
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,144
    Likes Received:
    579
    Loc:
    NH
    there really isn't one, it'd just be someones personal preference.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  13. save$

    save$
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,904
    Likes Received:
    365
    Loc:
    Chelsea Maine
    I am no pro, and I do see both installs in the instruction manual. But up and out allows for that legnth of the vent pipe to be in a warm space. A warm pipe will draft better allowing the warm air to exhaust before it cools and the exhaust particals from sticking to the walls of the pipe. Plus a warm internal vertical exhaust will in some little way help heat.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  14. Delta-T

    Delta-T
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,144
    Likes Received:
    579
    Loc:
    NH
    this woud be true if we're dealing with VOC's suspended in the exhaust stream but ash is not in solution, it is just carried by the column of air. If the stove is actually running correctly you have a pretty low occurance of VOC's in the exhaust, of course, in many cases of fire the stoves are not running correctly. There are many more variables that would contribute to the collection of ash than the pie being outside than inside, and of course, the overall length of run would have to be considered, but the temp difference between inside and outside on a pellet unit is not quite the same as say a wood stove would be, bwhich is why you always use Class A pipe on exteriors when dealing with wood. Static electricty is a huge factor in ash accumulation in pellet stove venting, and thats hard to combat. Over the years I have not noted any significant difference between inside and outside venting, when the stoves are properly cared for. That said, there's likely to be some instances that defy my observations, but I'd consider the host of other variables as the primary culprits before I'd suggest an outside venting configuration as the prime candidate for ash collection. Of course I mean no disrepect to other's observations and experiences. I dont know, and have not seen it all. :)
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  15. motorbykemike

    motorbykemike
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    1
    hey smokey ,
    what do you mean by the color inside the term cap?
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  16. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    13,363
    Likes Received:
    1,662
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    It looks to be black as in a poor burn has been going on.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  17. motorbykemike

    motorbykemike
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    1
    grey or tan are the target colors ?
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  18. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    13,363
    Likes Received:
    1,662
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    Those are preferred over black (a little black is one thing but there is too much from what I'm seeing).

    You do have to make some allowance for start up and shut down, but that looks like too much to me.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  19. motorbykemike

    motorbykemike
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    1
    if the stove was the source of the fire or even if it was not but maybe to a lesser extent , the fire event prob changed the color in the vent ?

    looks to be of adequate or even oversize diameter no ? looks like 6 inch ?

    lets say it was the stove , i assume a dirty burn could/would lead to a chimney fire if never cleaned ?

    if the vent was undersized or oversized ,what would the typical results/sympoms be ?

    new guy , just trying to learn
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  20. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    13,363
    Likes Received:
    1,662
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    We don 't have enough information to tell what happened and why.

    That vent seems intact (from what we can see of the picture) with the exception it has been pulled off the stove and out of the wall.

    The fire may have been from inside the stove or from an ash container we don't know and the video is not providing any real information.

    We have seen times when ash was disposed of by placing it in a pizza box and setting it on a deck, or the venting had a joint inside the wall or inside the house near the wall and the joint separated, there are also at least two recent threads on here of hopper fires that the owner was asking for help to fix and so forth. Just not enough information to go on in this case.

    Undersized venting usually leads to poor burns and a lot of ash build up, ash build up is a very bad thing.

    Oversize venting can also lead to poor burns etc .... but to be over sized you usually have to exceed 36 square inches of cross section and have bit of length.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
    Delta-T likes this.
  21. Delta-T

    Delta-T
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,144
    Likes Received:
    579
    Loc:
    NH
    ..the pizza box one is one of my all time favs.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  22. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    13,363
    Likes Received:
    1,662
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    Yeah and ISTR one case of someone starting their shop vacuum on fire as well.

    I really hate guessing about these things and there are plenty of things that can go wrong.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  23. motorbykemike

    motorbykemike
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    1
    i'm not guessing , i'm just fishing for general knowledge

    wow 36" cross section

    pizza box is just stupid

    i do wonder if her fire was on the floor or wall as a result of combustibles/clearances but in my own interest , venting is where i am really looking , i was "ejumakated affa da fax bout dat EViL" and am maarginal but don't want to totaly derail this thread , i do have "test" options and am exploring them / watching results

    at the same time , i just put this thing in and do not want a fire , have 5 extingushers and smoke/co detetectors ==c
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  24. Don2222

    Don2222
    Expand Collapse
    Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    7,797
    Likes Received:
    463
    Loc:
    Salem NH
    X2, that is a big difference and vent cleaning must be done more often to keep the stove safe.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature
  25. Northwoodneil

    Northwoodneil
    Expand Collapse
    Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2012
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    99
    Loc:
    Land of Cheese
    One more reason for the insurance company to raise my rates. Glad all were OK.
     
    Collapse Signature Expand Signature

Share This Page