How in the World Do I Heat With This Floor Plan??! (very stressed)

[thephotohound]

Since it will probably get lost in translation, I will post the krux of my problem right at the beginning:

How do I heat this house as effectively and as cheaply as possible?

Forget trying to draw what the floorplan actually looks like... it's much easier if I explain it this way (this may be the most effed up layout you've ever seen, but here goes...): Imagine two 28x32 structures (approx. 900 sq ft per floor), linked together by a 9x12 foyer. One structure is the "living" structure... kitchen, dining, family, living, open floor plan, cathedral ceilings, ceiling fans (lots of air flow). This structure has a fully finished basement that is lived in as much as the upper floor. There is currently a 45000 BTU Woodstock soapstone woodstove on the upper floor, on an outside wall (not perfect, I know, but it's the only spot that would work).

The second structure (the "bedroom" structure) has a 2 car garage on the first floor and 4 bedrooms on the second floor. No stove here. The structures are connected by a 9x12 foyer.

I have a free pellet stove sitting (unconnected) in the basement. Nice little 40,000 BTU unit (about 7 years old). My backup heat throughout the entire house is baseboard oil on a 15 yr old furnace.

Since wood is free to me, I want to (obviously) heat as much with wood as I can, but I'm afraid it would be a waste in an area just comprised of bedrooms. I've thought of putting the pellet stove in the lower level of the "living" structure (to make 2 stoves total in that structure)... but then I worry I'll be using too many pellets ($). Then I thought to put the pellet stove somewhere in the bedroom structure and turn it on just at night, but what about during the day? Let it get ice cold? Keep the oil thermostat low?

Next, I thought of putting a second woodstove in the living structure instead of the pellet stove. I have no idea if it's a lot more work to run two wood stoves... I understand it's twice the wood, but is it twice the work to load, clean, etc? I assume so, but there are a lot of you running two stoves and not minding it!

I'm both confused and perplexed. Any and all help is much appreciated!

 

[Eric Johnson]

So you have hot water baseboards hooked up to a 15-year old oil-fired boiler?

If you have free wood, why not consider a wood-fired boiler? Then you can heat your domestic hot water, and enjoy thermostatic control of your room temps.

 

[senorFrog]

IIRC you can't put woodstove in a garage or bedrooms because it's against building codes. Not sure if that applies to a pellet stove too.

Didn't you open a thread a while back on running two stoves? IMO, it would be twice the work.

I think you're kinda in the same boat as me. Floor plan is not conducive to heating house with a single heat source. We're in the addition/kitchen area during the days and the bedroom area at night. After considering many options, including knocking down walls, I finally accepted that my heating solution will always be a hybrid: woodstove & oil.

I lower the bedroom thermostat during the day, raise it to say 62* at night. I'll make this more efficient next year by going with a programable thermostat. The addition/kitchen area thermostat is always kept off, except during the coldest days of the year when I force it to run every so often to prevent the pipes from freezing. I run the woodstove 24x7 to heat the addition/kitchen area. I also run a nice vornado fan to encourage heat to move to rest of the house. It doesn't warm the bedroom area but it keeps it from not freezing, say ~ 58*.

In some cases there is just not much you can do with odd floor plans or houses that have large additions. Short of going with something like a TARM, you need to pick your battles and come up with the best possible solution, which is not the same as the ideal solution. If I had my way my house would be wide open on the interior like an Iroquois longhouse.

 

[thephotohound]

Eric -

Why did I have a feeling you would say that?

Here's the thing... my wife and I love the ambiance of the fire, as well as the radiant heat from the woodstove. We just really enjoy the look and feel of a roaring fire. With that said, the point of this thread is to heat efficiently and cheaply, so your answer is 100% perfect!

The first two thoughts that come to mind are:

1. Cost - how much does one of these units cost?
2. Smoke Output - I've heard stories about neighbors getting smoked out... is this the case? If so, how bad?

I like the idea of a wood-fired boiler, but I'm a little wary of the two points above. Plus, that would render my woodstove obsolete and unnecessary, would it not?

Senor -

Yes, I am the one who had the thread earlier this year... I'm still second guessing. I am leaning more towards just heating the "living" section with either straight wood or wood/pellet... I'll force as much heat as I can into the foyer, then just go oil in the bedrooms. I didn't know you couldn't have a woodstove in the garage...

 

[Eric Johnson]

A wood gasifier, say something in the 100,000-140,000 btu/hour range will run you around $5,000 plus installation, and preferably with some form of hot water storage, which is probably another $2,000. Wood gasifiers use about half as much wood as a conventional boiler, and produce no visible smoke (except on cold startup).

A conventional wood-fired boiler can probably be had for around $4,000. I had one once that was a combination wood/oil unit that hooked up to one chimney. I only used the oil when we went away on vacation in the winter, and occasionally in the early Spring and late Fall. Not subject to EPA regs, and yes, it kicked out some smoke and made some creosote. Sometimes it would burn clean, but not usually when you really wanted it to. The guy I sold the house to still uses it, and this winter we're going to hook an add-on catalytic combustor to it and see what happens.

There's a higher up-front cost with a boiler--no doubt about that. But you have to weigh the advantages, which I'm more than happy to list below:

No wood or mess in the living space;
Only one chimney needed;
Less maintenance & hassle;
Longer burn times (probably)
Free domestic hot water
Better control over heat distribution.
Smaller wood pile (unless you're like me)

Your house was designed for hydronic heat, so that's probably your best bet, IMO, especially given its layout.

Add up the cost of two wood stoves and heat shielding, two Class A chimneys, a hot water bill and wear and tear on the house hauling wood in and ashes out, and I'd say you're in the ballpark. Ambience--what can I say? There are some boilers with glass fronts designed to go into your living space.

 

[senorFrog]

I didn't know you couldn't have a woodstove in the garage...

I'm not an inspector or anything like that so, don't take my word for it. I seem to recall Elk posting something about it. Maybe someone else could chime in?

 

[webbie]

Yeah, no garages.......probably defined as an attached garage that is used (or designed) for vehicle storage. There might be ways to wall off a small room or area of the garage and install a boiler there, etc. - but it cannot be in the room with the cars, gas, etc.

 

[TruePatriot]

Eric,

How are you? When last we spoke, you explained why my saw sharpening was confusing to me (left and right on top of the bar are reversed on the bottom--a valuable lesson!).

Your statement below was intriguing to me. Can you post a link or point me at a couple of mfr.s of these bad boys?

There are some boilers with glass fronts designed to go into your living space.

Thanks,

Peter

 

[elkimmeg]

Yeah, no garages.......probably defined as an attached garage that is used (or designed) for vehicle storage. There might be ways to wall off a small room or area of the garage and install a boiler there, etc. - but it cannot be in the room with the cars, gas, etc.

Not wood. no wood burning appliance, can be installed a garage be it attached or not. However a gas or oil fired boiler can be providing its fire box is elevated no less than 18" off the floor

No combustion air can be taken from a garage A garage is considered a hazzardeous location due to fuel storage in autos and other small engine a gas appliances.

There was a garage in Charlestown RI that had a wood stove where fumes interacted with the wood stove only minutes after the owner went to the main home to answer the phone
then the two ensuing explosions of the cars in there when their gas tanks went off. This was not attached but the heat and explosions did touch of the siding and roof of the main

the explosion sent burning frame members 500 ft away into neighbor yards and blew out all windows facing the garage and the neighbors windows.

When the fire dept arrived all the could do is wet down the main home to save that and put out the fires caused by the burning framing members scattered around

Really the garage was gone after the first gast tank went off.

This occured about 10 years ago. The garage was never replaced the foundation still sits there ,also lost the two cars in the garage were clasic Mustangs.

The guy was working on his clasic mustangs using parts cleaners or carberator cleaner and the fumes found the wood stove Luckilly for him he left in time to answer a phone call

PH I responed in one of your other post looking for more info on you current heating system.

Yes I do run 2 stoves and it is more work more wood to cut and prepare. But I have been doing this over 25 years its a routine. However the second stove is not run all the time 24/7

I figure I only burn 2 cords a year in it 4 in the other stove. Never can say for sure. the amount burnt, I add to the piles and move it around all year long and take form many piles

 

[Eric Johnson]

Eric,

How are you? When last we spoke, you explained why my saw sharpening was confusing to me (left and right on top of the bar are reversed on the bottom--a valuable lesson!).

Your statement below was intriguing to me. Can you post a link or point me at a couple of mfr.s of these bad boys?

There are some boilers with glass fronts designed to go into your living space.

Thanks,

Peter

I'm doing great, TP. Good seeing you again.

Here's the link for one; I know there are others:

http://www.hydro-to-heat-convertor.com/

 

[begreen]

Ah, and they can make it with double-sided glazing. Very nice looking for a contemporary unit.

 

[thephotohound]

Eric -

The advantages of this unt are obvious... ambiance of the fire, but ability to heat the entire house and hot water as well... what are the drawbacks? How much wood do you go through? WHat happens in the summertime?

 

[Eric Johnson]

I have no idea, 'cause I've never seen one operating. I did see one on display at a trade show, and it looked weird to me. Of course, it's European technology, and they tend to be ahead of us where alternative energy is concerned, so I'm not surprised that I didn't really appreciate or understand how it works. I thought it looked undersized for the btu outputs they claim, and was surprised that the supply and return lines were only 3/4-inch copper. But I wouldn't be surprised if it did what they say.