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How many Insulate the pellet stove wall thimble with fire rated insulation?

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Don2222, May 20, 2013.

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Is your pellet stove wall thimble insulated?

  1. Yes

    4 vote(s)
    30.8%
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    69.2%
  1. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Hello

    I just installed the up an out kit on my garage stove and there is alot of cold air around the wall thimble.

    I am trying to tighten up the leaky garage with a new R18.4 Steel garage door.

    The thimble around the DT pipe has cold air just wafting in and caulking may stop the breeze but not the cold so much.

    How many of you put nice fire rated insulation around your pellet stove wall thru like the guy in the video?

    This Selkirk at Lowe's comes with some insulation on the inside. Selkirk is a Top name in Pellet Stove Venting and I assume they did test it.

    If you listen to the video carefully, The Tech states that the Product is an "Insulated Wall thimble" meaning he did not do that himself. So it must be UL approved also.
    http://www.lowes.com/pd_202831-85178-208463_0__?productId=3318268

    Attached Files:

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  2. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    IT IS DESIGNED TO BE AN AIR SPACE AROUND THE PIPE....DO NOT INSULATE!!!!! You can insulate around the outside of the cylinder.
    Defiant likes this.
  3. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Actually when you think of it, adding more air with an air space goes against everything they teach about smothering fires. Air is fuel for the fire! Adding fire rated insulation will help to smother the fire!

    Just look at this video you may understand the properties of Rock Wool a little better!
    As they say in the video, "Have you ever seen a rock burn?"
    Believe me after seeing this I feel much safer having my pellet pipe surrounded by rock wool than an air space! Wow! ! !

    http://www.rockwool.co.uk/why rockw...oes it burn-c7-/does it burn-c7- wooden house

    Things sometime change for the better! I have to try something like this. The cold from the thimble is too much for me!
    Lowe's now sells the new Selkirk wall thimble with insulation on the inside!

    For Wood or pellet Burning -- "UL safety listing - YES" see specs below

    This Selkirk wall thimble at Lowe's comes with some insulation on the inside!
    http://www.lowes.com/pd_202831-85178-208463_0__?productId=3318268

    Wood or Pellet Burning Wood
    BTU (BTU) 0.0
    Heating Area (Sq. Feet) 0.0
    Hopper Capacity (Cu. Feet) 0.0
    Ash Drawer No
    Blower No
    EPA Approved No
    UL Safety Listing Yes
    CSA Safety Listing No
    ETL Safety Listing No
    Brick-Lined Firebox No
    Air Wash System No
    Fuel Capacity (lbs.) 0.0
    Auto Ignition No
    Catalytic/Non Catalytic Non Catalytic
    Type Freestanding
  4. MikeP

    MikeP Member

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    If you watch the video you posted, between 2:10-2:40 he talks about it being an insulated thimble and just like the Lowes one its probably been designed to work with insulation. If the one you have came uninsulated I wouldn't just stuff insulation in it as it wasn't designed and tested to be insulated. I would just seal up the air leaks, probably the biggest culprit to heat loss and call it a day.
  5. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    Insulated thimble means air insulated unless it specifically stated adding other insulation which to date I have not found any that do.
  6. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    If it comes with it then that is another story...but as the OP I was really talking about liner and not double wall pipes or thimbles. You ought to take a CSIA or NFI class or try and pass the MA Solid Fuel Exam, you can't just start tossing install advice around
  7. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    Ah and another thing..."Listed" is different than "Approved" just because it was listed doesn't mean that it passed and when citing UL, ANSI or ASTM testing standards it's a good idea to cite the actual test. There is a lot of crap out there that home stores sell that is "Listed" but actually failed the test...they tried but it didn't work out for them. In an effort to make something cheaper often the product doesn't perform as it should.
  8. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    UL approved install advice is what I am talking about and you are not the OP in this thread!

    Here is another Insulated Excel Thimble that can be used for Pellet burning

    http://compare.ebay.com/like/200864799563?_lwgsi=y&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

    Insulated Wall Thimble for Gas, Pellet or Wood Stove ~ 4 3/4 to 5 inch


    See insulation inside inner ring to seal pellet pipe. Nice Idea :)
    Click pick below to Enlarge:

    Attached Files:

  9. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    This insulated wall thimble is Tested to ULC Standard S-641 and UL103UL-103 Standard
    http://www.menards.com/main/p-1936086.htm

    However, The pellet stoves and accessories sold in home stores must be UL approved and safe or they cannot be sold! Selkirk is a TOP name in pellet stove venting! Maybe you should try it and get more familiar with it!

    For the money, I think I would go with the Selkirk.

    It looks like Selkirk uses Roxul rock wool insulation. It's temp rating is 2150 Def F and R=22 for 6" wall.
  10. Defiant

    Defiant Vermont Castings Geek

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    I don't :cool:
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  11. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Hello

    Looks like it maybe a good summer project for next year. According to this Menard's wall thimble ad, this insulated wall thimble is designed for all fuels!

    Better Insulating Value = Superior Stove Performance


    Also
    This insulated DSP Double Wall Stove Pipe is listed and tested to ULC S641 and UL 103 standards.
    http://www.menards.com/main/p-1936086.htm


    8" Insulated Wall Thimble

    • Smokepipe Accessories
    • Tested to ULC Standard S-641 and UL103UL-103 Standard
    • All residential fuels, gas, liquid, solid. UL103; ULC S641
    • An attractive outer black painted surface made of durable aluminized steel to withstand temperatures up to 1200 degrees F of continuous operation
    • Better Insulating Value = Superior Stove Performance
    • 6" Clearance to Combustibles
    • Designed with double wall construction and a durable stainless steel inner liner.
    • Limited Lifetime Warranty
    Click pic to enlarge:

    Attached Files:

  12. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    listed and tested to ULC S641 and UL 103 standards doesn't mean it passed the test. Usually when it does it will say "Listed and Approved"
  13. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    Not true.
  14. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    yeah sorry, thought I was back on my thread...ooopsie!
  15. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Thanks Scott, I think Selkirk uses Roxul rock wool insulation inside the Wall thru which is good to 2150 Deg F. That is why it works well and keeps the inside of the house warmer. What do you think?
  16. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    You can only add things to listed appliances and venting components when the manufacturer explicitly tells you it is ok according to the listing. Would adding fire wool to a wall thimble alter the listing?...I do not know but I wouldn't want to be on the hook in the event of a fire for "trying it out". One has to be careful.

    People say that the fire brick in a pellet stove firebox isn't a big deal either and you don't need it. I would agree with that statement if the fire brick was sold "optional", but if it came with the stove and there is no mention of optional fire brick in the owner's manual...then it is mandatory.

    Does the wall thimble say that adding fire wool to the fire stop insulating cylinder is optional? If so, knock yourself out. I have had inspectors bust my chops about putting solicone on a wall thimble, are they right? Perhaps.....like I said, if it isn't explicitly stated, opt for not doing it.
  17. will711

    will711 Minister of Fire

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    Me either:cool:
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  18. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    Not a big fan of Selkirk myself.
  19. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    This pellet stove wall thimble comes with rock wool insulation from Selkirk so it must be ok.

    [​IMG]
  20. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    Yes...and it may HAVE to be there too since it came with it.
  21. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    That would stop the cold air coming in and you do need silicone to stop air from coming in.
  22. Defiant

    Defiant Vermont Castings Geek

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    The mice love to make nests with it:p You did not specify where the insulation went in your early postings:cool:
  23. smoke show

    smoke show Guest

    Do you have much experience with Direct Temp?
  24. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Don, that is for an 8" wood stove? So an insulated thimble would benefit slightly. A wood stove must keep the flue gases as warm as possible, for as long as possible. But with wood, many people burn unseasoned wood. Very few people actually let there wood sit the required 2-3 years before burning.

    As for pellet stoves? Pellets have a very low moisture content and can stand a lower flue temp. Insulating a liner on a pellet stove is not as big of a deal as a wood stove.

    As is the thimble on a pellet stove? Silicone the pipe to thimble connection and call it a day.
    Defiant likes this.
  25. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

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    Smoke - Still haven't gotten an answer huh? http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/best-vent-pipe-for-new-install.88665/#post-1151905 I would be interested in his response as well. Scott has mentioned on a few occaisions that he doesn't like Selkirk, but I haven't seen an explanation. I very well might have missed it though, because I don't read everything on here.... There are quite a few people on here that have the DT line and are very pleased with it.
    smoke show likes this.

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