How to remove cemented in liner?

[SculptureOfSound]

Hi All,

I've got to remove a square SS liner that was cemented in (chimney was relined due to cracking clay tiles to use as regular fireplace) at the top and bottom with Chambertech 2000. This liner is 5.75 x 8.75 inches and needs to be removed to put in a 6" round. I'll have to remove the clay flue tiles, too, I think, as they are 8x12 O.D so inner dimensions are around 6.5 by 10.625 according to this ( http://superiorclay.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Square-Flues.pdf )

So what's the best way to remove the Chambertech? Can I just chisel it out?

 

[begreen]

Is the Chambertech liner safe and in good condition? Is so why the removal? Would an oval liner be an option? Is this for a freestanding stove or an insert?

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Chambertech liner is in good condition - almost brand new. 1 year old with only a handful of fires in it.

This would be for an insert, external masonry chimney 13' tall.Oval is an option but a few concerns:

Needs to be insulated as chambertech liner wasn't. So I need an insulated oval liner to fit inside this 5.75 by 8.75 liner.

Draft issues? Chimney from base of firebox to cap is 13' so already prone to weak draft. Would ovalization make draft even worse?

Another ovalization concern - I do plan to run the liner one or two feet above current chimney to get to 14-15'. If I go with oval liner throughout, are there less options to make it look halfway decent if extending it this much?

 

[begreen]

DuraLiner is pre-insulated with an OD of 7 3/4" by 4 3/4". Switch to an oval to round piece at the damper area. You can use their extend-a-cap to add about 13" or use slip connector with their transition anchor plate to transition to a DuraTech chimney pipe extension.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Any idea how much ovalization impacts draft? I do like the idea of not having to tear everything out, but conversely, don't want to suffer with poor performance anymore (our open fireplace tends to leak quite a bit of smoke into the room, I think it was probably always this way - we re-lined it before ever using it when we bought the house - as firebox opening is 33 wide by 27 high, which is way more than 10 times the area of the flue. Not sure why they didn't go with a 12x12 flue originally)

 

[SculptureOfSound]

I should add chimney is 100% straight run, no bends or offsets at all.

 

[begreen]

With a few feet of class A on top it should draft properly. What insert will this be for?

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Not sure yet. Quad Voyageur Grand or BK Ashford 25. I know if I go with the latter draft will be of utmost importance. I'd also look at adding 4' of pipe to get 17' total, as it calls for a minimum of 15' from the top of the insert.

 

[bholler]

The stainless liner should not be to much of an issue to get out. But if the clay really is cemented in that is very hard and sometimes impossible to remove. The only way I have found to be effective at all on truely cemented liners is I take a grinder and put it on the end of rigid rods with a bracket I made and cut all 4 faces of the clay. I then use an air chisel on rods to remove those sections. But that takes a long time and even that is not always effective. I think if they are cemented in the best option is oval.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Only the stainless liner is cemented as far as I know. The clay tiles behind that...not sure, and guess I couldn't know without tearing out the SS liner.

How hard is it to break up chambertech? There's only like 2 inches or less of it at the top and bottom of the SS liner.

 

[bholler]

Only the stainless liner is cemented as far as I know. The clay tiles behind that...not sure, and guess I couldn't know without tearing out the SS liner.

How hard is it to break up chambertech? There's only like 2 inches or less of it at the top and bottom of the SS liner.

Not hard at all. Not sure why they would have done it at the top that seems pointless to me.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

No cap on top - just the bare crown (which was covered in some kind of crown repair sealant) so he cemented it to the existing clay tile at the top. Not sure if this is an odd install, but do remember it was for a re-line fore open fireplace use only. Oh, if I knew then what I knew now, would have put a 6" in and got an insert right off the bat.

 

[bholler]

No cap on top - just the bare crown (which was covered in some kind of crown repair sealant) so he cemented it to the existing clay tile at the top. Not sure if this is an odd install, but do remember it was for a re-line fore open fireplace use only. Oh, if I knew then what I knew now, would have put a 6" in and got an insert right off the bat.

Yes that is a very odd and incorrect way to install a liner.

 

[SculptureOfSound]

Is there any drawback to removing the stainless liner that's in there, and removing the clay tiles, and then re-lining with a 6"? Is it possible/easy to damage a masonry chimney while removing clay tiles?

Conversely, is there any benefit to using an insulated oval liner inside of a bigger rectangular liner inside of clay tiles? To me it seems this setup would be a bit safer (essentially 3 layers of liner, although the clay tiles are marginal as they were cracked/flaking) but would not draft as well.

 

[bholler]

The draw backs to removing the old liners are cost and the fact that it would make it harder to go back to a fireplace in the future.

And yes there is always a risk of damage when breaking out tiles.

No there is absoluyly no safety gain by having stainless and clay outside you liner.