I want a number!

[Cearbhaill]

So I guess I am feeling cantankerous today as I sit here and watch my thermometer rise above my comfort zone once again.

I want a number.

I want to know what number on my Rutland magnetic thermometer represents a temperature that is dangerous- meaning too hot.
My insert likes to get hot and I spend way too much time watching it and worrying. Thermometer is on the front of my insert, I have an exterior chimney with a full ss liner but no block off plate. Chimney is (I think, ±) 16 feet high above ground (insert is in underground basement) and has always drafted really well.

A brief explanation of what Bad Thing might happen if it gets too hot would be a bonus question- will it burst into flame or just ruin the insert? Do I evacuate or put out the fire or open the air supply to let the heat out? Would this cause a chimney fire if I am swept and inspected twice a year- midseason and post season? I have a non ambulatory invalid and many animals to worry about, so feel like I want to know exactly what actions to take. But primarily I am interested in a number.

So.. what should be the peak temperature at the top of the burn cycle that I should not exceed?

A number!

 

[Hogwildz]

So I guess I am feeling cantankerous today as I sit here and watch my thermometer rise above my comfort zone once again.

I want a number.
On that thermo, if its constantly above say 850, y amight want to check the door for leakage with a dollar bill.
Mne likes 700-750 when getting up to full steam, before settling down to 650ish.

I want to know what number on my Rutland magnetic thermometer represents a temperature that is dangerous- meaning too hot.
Constantly pegged is concerning, other than that what temp does she settle & cruise at after the initial spike?

My insert likes to get hot and I spend way too much time watching it and worrying. Thermometer is on the front of my insert, I have an exterior chimney with a full ss liner but no block off plate. Chimney is (I think, ±) 16 feet high above ground (insert is in underground basement) and has always drafted really well.

A brief explanation of what Bad Thing might happen if it gets too hot would be a bonus question- will it burst into flame or just ruin the insert? Do I evacuate or put out the fire or open the air supply to let the heat out? Would this cause a chimney fire if I am swept and inspected twice a year- midseason and post season? I have a non ambulatory invalid and many animals to worry about, so feel like I want to know exactly what actions to take. But primarily I am interested in a number.
You would have to continually seriously over fire that stove to do any permanent damage. And even then it might work for many years.
It won't melt, spontaneously combust etc. If it aint glowing read on the outside, your fine.

So.. what should be the peak temperature at the top of the burn cycle that I should not exceed?
Each set up has its own, there are no set numbers. But mine is about 700 to 750, then she settles in and cruises at 650.

A number!

 

[karri0n]

What is your comfort zone? Where is your thermometer located? This will dictate what the temperature is, but 500-600 is a good max. For reference, I've had my entire stove and flue pipe glowing BRIGHT orange, and it was likely over 2000 degrees. That flue has been replaced, but I kept right on using it without issue at the time. I didn't know any better.


In an overfire situation, the biggest risk is that you are losing a lot of heat out your flue pipe. You aren't going to ruin the insert unless the body of it gets incredibly hot, and you will know when it illuminates the room with an orange hue. You can damage the flue pipe, but the insert will handle a lot of abuse before something happens. The likelihood of a chimney fire is minimal, since your insert really won't make that much of a creosote deposit unless you are burning wet wood. You shouldn't worry that much.

 

[RAY_PA]

I have the same stove as Hog and get the same results, temp wise. I was nervous the first few fires this year and had a talk with Hog about the temps and he assured me it was OK...he was right and everything was fine. I feel the 'over fire' range on the Rutland is a bit low, temp wise...I hit 700-750 all the time with no problems, have hit 800 a couple times and spiked the thing one time when my wife hit the air intake lever with the broom while sweeping around the stove after I loaded it full and made a mess we didnt notice it for an hour or so and the baby was COOKIN'. I did prepare for evaucation at that time, but it settled in at 650 after about 30 minutes with the blower on hi, and all was well.
Good luck and let it tell you where it likes to be, provided it is operating well and no air leaks.

 

[Hogwildz]

Keep in mind, the magnetic thermometers are actually made for use on the stack. So when using it on an insert face or stove top, its merely for reference, the numbers really are not correct for these applications.
Your stove will tell you were it likes to cruise. You find this by monitoring the thermometer, and if its always cruising at 400, 500, 600 whatever the case, that is where she likes to run. Not so much the number, but now you know if its cruising steady much higher or lower than that, and adjustment may be needed as its not operating at its usual temp. After some time, you will be able to look at the fire & secondary etc, and know exactly what its doing and if its burning too low or high. Usually low is the more frequently seen issue. Once a stove is up to temp & cruising its pretty much set & forget till next reload. If it seems too low, the wood is wet, or was not allowed to get established enough to get up to temp.

 

[Cearbhaill]

Ok- it likes to spike up to between 650-700º, then settles back to the 600º range.
Twice it has been up to just over 750º and that kind of freaked me out- that's the night I got the cat crates out and almost woke up my household.

If I could just be assured that an occasional 750º on a PE insert front is not overly dangerous (and the thing won't go up in flames) I would be ever so grateful.
I know I am asking for excessive hand holding here, but can't shake the fear of making a bonehead mistake and risking lives.

I have never had a problem with low temperatures, just worry about high. I dollar bill test every time I clean it and my wood has been seasoning since April '07, hickory and red oak, little bit of silver maple left (and I know the maple runs hot and fast).

Thanks for your help- it...helps

 

[karri0n]

It won't burst into flames until about 3000 degrees. Occasional 750 is ok, but if its that high, you probably aren't turning the air down enough. You can pretty much close it all the way, and should most of the time once it is burning well.

 

[edthedawg]

Cast iron or steel is gonna need to get well over 2000 before something melts - chances are you're not really close to that

If you're more concerned about the combustibles in the region getting too hot, pick up a cheap IR thermometer (can be had for ~$30 from Harbor Freight or a variety of ebay vendors - PM me for details of my ebay purchase) and see what the trim, walls, furniture, etc. are getting up to when the stove peaks out.

But it sounds like you're hitting the sweet spot pretty well

 

[Cearbhaill]

Occasional 750 is ok, but if its that high, you probably aren't turning the air down enough. You can pretty much close it all the way, and should most of the time once it is burning well.

That is with the air all the way off- that's why it scares me. I have no further recourse should it continue going up.
I am left to just sit there and stare at it and wonder when it is going to peak.

I have no combustibles within range- CBC walls and concrete floor. I am just afraid of the insert itself exploding or something.

Didn't you hear- broads worry too much

 

[RedRanger]

Occasional 750 is ok, but if its that high, you probably aren't turning the air down enough. You can pretty much close it all the way, and should most of the time once it is burning well.

That is with the air all the way off- that's why it scares me. I have no further recourse should it continue going up.
I am left to just sit there and stare at it and wonder when it is going to peak.

You state "with the air all the way off"..

If you open it, say, just 10%--would that not allow some of that excessive heat to escape up the chimney?

Suggesting that you try not closing it all the way,leave it 10-15% open and see how that works for ya?

 

[karri0n]

IME, opening it 10% would allow it to climb higher, but maybe not in this case. Worth experimenting I guess, but purposely losing heat up the flue isn't something I plan on doing in the near future.

You should be glad you can achieve 700+ full time with the air all the way closed. It's mostly due to the fact that I bought my wood in Nov, and therefore it's FAR less than perfect, but I would love to even achieve 600 with the air cranked all the way down. I'm usually just shy of 500, and my stove is known as being a really hot burner.

 

[RAY_PA]

Occasional 750 is ok, but if its that high, you probably aren't turning the air down enough. You can pretty much close it all the way, and should most of the time once it is burning well.

That is with the air all the way off- that's why it scares me. I have no further recourse should it continue going up.
I am left to just sit there and stare at it and wonder when it is going to peak.

I have no combustibles within range- CBC walls and concrete floor. I am just afraid of the insert itself exploding or something.

Didn't you hear- broads worry too much

I am with ya....its not that the air IS turned all the way down, it is that you didnt turn it down soon enough and the result is a hot stove...I know from experience. And your right, you just sit there and watch it spike...turn the blower on HI and wait for 30 minutes or so...it will come back down.
Dont wait till it hits 500 before turning down the air, thats way too late. If you turn it down too soon, you'll know also and that is an easy fix, just crack the air open and let it get going good then turn it down again.

 

[Cearbhaill]

I am with ya....its not that the air IS turned all the way down, it is that you didnt turn it down soon enough and the result is a hot stove...I know from experience. And your right, you just sit there and watch it spike...turn the blower on HI and wait for 30 minutes or so...it will come back down.
Dont wait till it hits 500 before turning down the air, thats way too late. If you turn it down too soon, you'll know also and that is an easy fix, just crack the air open and let it get going good then turn it down again.

Yeah- I do turn the air down way sooner than 500º, more like 350º.
Sometimes it just seems to have a mind of it's own- it's different wood, or it's drafting better for some reason. Whatever, it's something I am unable to control so knowing a number is just to make me feel more secure.

 

[Corey]

Those Rutland thermos always seem a bit conservative to me. Additionally some people have reported they aren't terribly accurate. Got chilly yesterday...58F inside the house when I got home...and I was outside in the 25F air for most of the afternoon. As a result I was in "Corey want heat now!" mode when I got home. Fired her up to about 875-900F as gauged by the IR thermometer on the top/center of the firebox - for a couple hours to get the place warm. I can't speak for soapstone, cast iron or other types of stoves, but a good welded plate steel design, virtually nothing is happening with the steel until the austenite/pearlite transition temperature at ~1330F and really shouldn't have any trouble until well beyond that. So if the flue is clean and the stove is solid, not too much to worry about.

 

[Cearbhaill]

Fired her up to about 875-900F for a couple hours to get the place warm.

I would seriously have to change my pants.

I'm steel. Right?

 

[gpcollen1]

Fired her up to about 875-900F for a couple hours to get the place warm.

I would seriously have to change my pants.

I'm steel. Right?

My Olympic loves the 800-900 jig - so do I with the amount of heat that creates...

 

[Hanko]

8675309

 

[fossil]

42...it's the answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything. Rick

 

[Pagey]

42...it's the answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything. Rick

Now, is that 42F or 42C?

 

[thechimneysweep]

Listen to the Hog-man, he knows whereof he speaks.

In my opinion, there is far too much concern about woodstove temperatures in the forum. I burn a free-standing Pacific Spectrum stove, which has the D1 firebox (albeit an older version). My thermometer is on the center of the top plate, just in front of the flue collar.

After you've kindled a fresh load until it is engulfed in flames, and then turned the draft control down for the long burn, the stove temp will continue to rise for awhile until it spikes, then it will gradually cool down to its cruise temperature. The temperature spike doesn't mean you're out of control, it is just how the stove operates.

I take my stove to 700f and beyond on the post-turndown spike twice a day, every day. I've pegged it (850) maybe a hundred times.

Been doing that for 16 years.

Except for a light-gray circle of paint right where my thermometer is (and I could touch that up if I wanted to), and a slight "belly" on the underside of my baffle box, my stove looks like new. No damage, warpage, housefires, explosions, or meltdowns. Children and small animals have been raised in the house, and turned out fairly normal (the animals, anyway).

So, let's come up with a number for you:

5 mos. burning season (150 days) x 2 spikes per day x 16 years = 4800 spikes.

You don't have to worry about your stove, house or safety for at least 4800 spikes at 700-850 degrees.

 

[fossil]

42...it's the answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything. Rick

Now, is that 42F or 42C?

Neither. It's not a temperature, just an answer. Rick

 

[Adios Pantalones]

The Ultimate Question, to which 42 is he answer, however... that's a different matter.

"The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't"

 

[jadm]

A number!

Thank-you for this question ( and for others who have responded).

I am burning with a new insert and it regularly gets up to 650*-700* which would have terrified me with my old insert. I am beginning to settle down now with the higher numbers BUT it got to 800* the other day and my nerves did spike up too. :ahhh: It came down when I shut the air down all the way. So did my nerves.

After reading responses here I feel a bit more relaxed knowing I am not putting anybody at risk with my errors in judgment. :coolsmile:

So I guess the number I feel most relieved with is my best friend's telephone number. She always reminds me that we really have no control - it is but an illusion - so relax, breathe and enjoy the ride. ;-)

 

[Dix]

8675309

I got your number on the wall ;-)

Toni, it sounds like it's working ! And someone's got to do some worrying sometimes, even us broads

It's a very good insert, isn't it !?!?

 

[Hogwildz]

Occasional 750 is ok, but if its that high, you probably aren't turning the air down enough. You can pretty much close it all the way, and should most of the time once it is burning well.

That is with the air all the way off- that's why it scares me. I have no further recourse should it continue going up.
I am left to just sit there and stare at it and wonder when it is going to peak.

I have no combustibles within range- CBC walls and concrete floor. I am just afraid of the insert itself exploding or something.

Didn't you hear- broads worry too much

Toni,'
I am burning the Pacific's Big brother the Summit.
Mine spikes up to 700 or 750 every night upon a full reload. NO detrimental effects.
You are doing just fine. That stove will out last most of us. And trust me, when the temp gets into the teens & single digits, 750 is going to feel like a godsend.
Your right on mark, sounds like your getting similar temps to mine, and mine has yet to ever glow.
Enjoy.