Ideal Steel Problem

[Brono]

Good morning,

I finally got my Ideal Steel installed this week and am having a problem with it. I think I know the cause but wanted to get input.

I bought 4 cords of "seasoned" firewood early October. I know the wood is not ideal, I could tell from the weight of some of them and ended up buying a meter to test. I've had from mid teens all the way to high twenties, with the vast majority I tested landing around 22-23%.

The first fire I had in it was beautiful. Lots of secondaries, and the cat glowing red hot when throttling down the air control. The following two nights, I could not get secondaries at all, and only flames if I had the bypass open; as soon as the cat was closed in, the flames would drop, even with the air control wide open. Both mornings, there was mostly just ash left with some hot coals remaining so it did eventually burn down.

Here's my question. The wood used in the first fire had been inside on our rack for about a month. The following two nights the wood was from outside. Would a month of being inside had dried out the wood enough to make that difference, or is there something else going on?

I ended up buying couple of bundles of kiln dried from Home Depot to test, but we're having a warm front come through and it is in the low 60s with heavy rains - besides not wanting to burn us out of the house, I want to test the dry wood under similar conditions.

I'm hoping that it's the fact the wood isn't seasoned well enough, and a month inside made the difference for the first batch.

Thank you!

 

[Woody Stover]

Yes, having the wood inside will dry it more than the stuff that was outside; Air temp is your seasoning friend. It sure sounds like wet wood is the cause of your problems
Several years back I had wood that was up around 25%, and not burning too well. I brought about half a cord in the house and put a fan blowing on it. It got the wood (split medium-small) to 20% in a couple weeks. Your wife may not approve. Mine wasn't thrilled, but she let it slide since I was getting her more heat.

 

[jatoxico]

Sounds like a wood problem. Even with the outside wood the splits on top and with otherwise good exposure are often more usable and then things go downhill as you get deeper in the stack and the wood is wetter.

How are you measuring the moisture content of the wood?

 

[kennyp2339]

you may want to consider buying compressed wood bricks to mix with the cord wood.

 

[moresnow]

Any local friends who burn modern stoves requiring dry wood? Maybe see about grabbing some dry wood for a test. Sounds like wet fuel if you are losing most of your active fire upon Cat engagement.

 

[Woody Stover]

How are you measuring the moisture content of the wood?

Right, the wood needs to be brought up to temp inside before testing, or it will read low if it's still cold.
Also, there's no guarantee that bought wood will be dry either. I've seen gas station Oak that bubbled out the ends when put on an outside fire. Now, 2x4s will be dry, and so will the compressed bricks that kenny mentioned..

 

[Slocum]

Good morning,

I finally got my Ideal Steel installed this week and am having a problem with it. I think I know the cause but wanted to get input.

I bought 4 cords of "seasoned" firewood early October. I know the wood is not ideal, I could tell from the weight of some of them and ended up buying a meter to test. I've had from mid teens all the way to high twenties, with the vast majority I tested landing around 22-23%.

The first fire I had in it was beautiful. Lots of secondaries, and the cat glowing red hot when throttling down the air control. The following two nights, I could not get secondaries at all, and only flames if I had the bypass open; as soon as the cat was closed in, the flames would drop, even with the air control wide open. Both mornings, there was mostly just ash left with some hot coals remaining so it did eventually burn down.

Here's my question. The wood used in the first fire had been inside on our rack for about a month. The following two nights the wood was from outside. Would a month of being inside had dried out the wood enough to make that difference, or is there something else going on?

I ended up buying couple of bundles of kiln dried from Home Depot to test, but we're having a warm front come through and it is in the low 60s with heavy rains - besides not wanting to burn us out of the house, I want to test the dry wood under similar conditions.

I'm hoping that it's the fact the wood isn't seasoned well enough, and a month inside made the difference for the first batch.

Thank you!

Do you have a chimney flue probe or thermometer? I struggled at first rekindling a fire and learned to get my flue temp up before closing door or turning air down. My house is really tight and it also helps if I crack a outside door or window to help draft get established. Once I get the pipe heated up my fires take right off. Your wood situation don’t help things but it is what it is. If I was you I would figure out a way to get your wood inside at least a day before you burn it. That’s not going to dry your wood but it will get rid of any moisture on surface and help getting fire to light. I know people say don’t bring it in house till your going to burn it but I do. I have no issues. There is a lot to learn about that stove. The more I use it the more I love it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brono]

Thanks all for the input!

Sounds like a wood problem. Even with the outside wood the splits on top and with otherwise good exposure are often more usable and then things go downhill as you get deeper in the stack and the wood is wetter.

How are you measuring the moisture content of the wood?

Splitting the wood, and measuring several different points across the face.

you may want to consider buying compressed wood bricks to mix with the cord wood.

Like BioBricks? Or is there a different company you would recommend? Would the idea be to throw in one with every load, or get those going first, then add the wood?

Do you have a chimney flue probe or thermometer? I struggled at first rekindling a fire and learned to get my flue temp up before closing door or turning air down. My house is really tight and it also helps if I crack a outside door or window to help draft get established. Once I get the pipe heated up my fires take right off. Your wood situation don’t help things but it is what it is. If I was you I would figure out a way to get your wood inside at least a day before you burn it. That’s not going to dry your wood but it will get rid of any moisture on surface and help getting fire to light. I know people say don’t bring it in house till your going to burn it but I do. I have no issues. There is a lot to learn about that stove. The more I use it the more I love it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've got a stove top thermometer and a cat probe. I currently wait to engage the cat based on the stove top temp, as I'm not sure using the cat probe is good temp to go by? I have a flue probe but haven't drilled into my pipe yet, unsure I'll need to if the cat probe can be used for gauging engagement temperature?

Right, the wood needs to be brought up to temp inside before testing, or it will read low if it's still cold.
Also, there's no guarantee that bought wood will be dry either. I've seen gas station Oak that bubbled out the ends when put on an outside fire. Now, 2x4s will be dry, and so will the compressed bricks that kenny mentioned..

I was not aware of bringing it up to temperature before testing, but makes complete sense. I'll have to do that and retest.



If the store bought kiln dried works like a charm, I'm considering biting the bullet and buying cords of kiln dried for this year, and my other wood should be golden by next season. However, with the compressed bricks being suggested, unsure if that would be a cheaper/better option?

 

[moresnow]

Buy some bricks and see what they do.

If financially capable you may as well buy wood now (if you don't cut your own?) that you can begin seasoning. Start getting a rotation started. Sooner the better. Consider that many hardwoods take a few years (3 for some Oak in my neck of the woods) to season correctly in most parts of the states.

Kiln dried is said to be questionable as well. It is dried to a critter free state supposedly. Not always truly seasoned. Check some before purchasing so you know where your at.

Good luck.

 

[Rearscreen]

I'd re-title the thread "Wood Problem".

 

[Woody Stover]

you may as well buy wood now (if you don't cut your own?) that you can begin seasoning. Start getting a rotation started. Sooner the better. Consider that many hardwoods take a few years (3 for some Oak in my neck of the woods) to season correctly

If you can get soft Maple (Red, Silver etc,) Sasafrass (pops a lot,) even Tulip Poplar or Pine (they burn up fast) split 4" per side max, stacked in the wind and top-covered only, ASAP, it will be dry by this fall.

 

[jatoxico]

Splitting the wood, and measuring several different points across the face.

Asked because as Woody said, has to be room temp. Cold measured splits will read false low. It seems most basic moisture meters are calibrated at 68-72 deg F.

 

[Slocum]

Thanks all for the input!



Splitting the wood, and measuring several different points across the face.



Like BioBricks? Or is there a different company you would recommend? Would the idea be to throw in one with every load, or get those going first, then add the wood?



I've got a stove top thermometer and a cat probe. I currently wait to engage the cat based on the stove top temp, as I'm not sure using the cat probe is good temp to go by? I have a flue probe but haven't drilled into my pipe yet, unsure I'll need to if the cat probe can be used for gauging engagement temperature?




I was not aware of bringing it up to temperature before testing, but makes complete sense. I'll have to do that and retest.



If the store bought kiln dried works like a charm, I'm considering biting the bullet and buying cords of kiln dried for this year, and my other wood should be golden by next season. However, with the compressed bricks being suggested, unsure if that would be a cheaper/better option?

I watch my flue prob so I know when I have a strong draft. My flames will go out if I engage my cat and don’t have sufficient draft and I’m burning 3-5 year old wood. 10-15% moisture. I’m just saying make sure your draft is good. Open a window or door and see if it makes a difference


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[weatherguy]

You probably have a mix of wood with some dry and some not, Id put any oak aside for another year. Bring a weeks worth inside at a time to dry out and buy some bio bricks, throw 3-4 bricks with each load and you should be fine for this year. Maybe buy a pallet of bio bricks xl or canawicks. (I prefer canawicks).

 

[billb3]

Yes, your nice dry house sucked the moisture out of the wood.

A mix of wood here would be maple and oak. I'd pull out all the oak as that can take two or three years to season well. Maybe a little less to season well enough. Hopefully the rest is wood that takes a year or so to season. Sometimes you can tell just by the weight which splits would be better to use.

 

[Brono]

Thank you all again for the input. What's the best way to tell which are the oak ones? I've read a few online guides but didn't know if there are any quick tips/tricks?

I've been reloading the stove as such so far, and it seems to be working. I sometimes add a BioBrick or two as well. I'll load the stove up, then open the ash door and let the stove run until the cat probe (cat isn't engaged) reads around 1100. I then close the ash door and leave the bypass open and air control wide open until the stove body thermometer is reading 600, at which point I drop the air control to between 1/4 and 1/3, and close in the cat. This approach has left minimal soot on the window, and seems to carry the fire well enough. I know this isn't great, but is it outright bad? I don't want to damage the stove.

Also - considering my wood isn't great, would I be better off feeding the stove a log every few hours as opposed to stuffing it, letting it burn down, and then reloading it every 10-12?

EDIT - I should mention this method isn't used from a cold start. I have a bed of coals remaining and the stove is sitting around 600 degrees. I open the air control, bypass, and crack the door for about 10 minutes beforehand as well.

 

[Woody Stover]

What's the best way to tell which are the oak ones?

Oak will have light-colored lines (medullary rays) radiating out from the center. Oak is about the only specie where these are visible, but they aren't always easy to see. After a while, you'll be able to ID most of the common woods in your area, just by looking at the split face, bark etc.
Dense woods take longer to dry, and Red Oak is one of the slowest. Don't try to burn it next season, separate it out for additional time drying. I like to leave it split and stacked in the wind (top-cover only) for at least three years..then it really gets good. This has been out there maybe six years.

 

[Brono]

Oak will have light-colored lines (medullary rays) radiating out from the center. Oak is about the only specie where these are visible, but they aren't always easy to see. After a while, you'll be able to ID most of the common woods in your area, just by looking at the split face, bark etc.
Dense woods take longer to dry, and Red Oak is one of the slowest. Don't try to burn it next season, separate it out for additional time drying. I like to leave it split and stacked in the wind (top-cover only) for at least three years..then it really gets good. This has been out there maybe six years.

View attachment 236516

Thanks for the tip. That is some gorgeous looking wood! Mine does not look that like!

 

[prezes13]

Just for your information I have oak cut split and stock 3.5 years and some of it is still iffy. Oak burns like a dream when fully seasoned but if it’s wet then it’s a major pain.

 

[Woody Stover]

I have oak cut split and stock 3.5 years and some of it is still iffy.

If you split big, it can take forever! 4" on a side isn't too bad but you might need bigger splits, depending on your stove type and setup (if you need to slow down the burn.)

 

[brenndatomu]

If you buy anything, buy a pallet of those compressed sawdust firewood bricks...they will be dry...kiln dried firewood is not necessarily dry...most is just brought up to temp long enough to kill the bugs.
Or buy enough firewood to get yourself ahead 2-3 years, so that next year your wood is dry...and the year after it will be even better...

 

[Brono]

Merry Christmas All!

I ran out and bought a handful of BioBricks. The normal and XL size. I loaded the stove exclusively with them last night, a 2x3 XL base with a second layer of however many normal sized ones it took to cover the area, loaded them perpendicular to the first layer to limit air exposure. Pushed them to the back, and then pushed all of my coals up against the front of the stack with a few pieces of kindling. Stove seemed to love it, the stove top thermometer was reading around 450, however my cat was pushing over 1500, which started making me nervous. This was with the air control 1/4 open. I dialed it back to 1/8 and it slid down towards 1300 before I went to bed. My wife stayed up another hour or so and said it was around 1200 before she called it a night.

I did some reading around the forums and it seems like 1500 is the upper limit of acceptable for the cat? Also, it is my understanding a fresh cat is much more active and it should taper off after a few hundred hours. This AM the probe was reading around 600 which I believe means it was still ignited? Stove top was reading around 350. So I guess my first question is how can you tell if the cat is lit, or if the probe is just picking up exhaust temp?

My second question - I also purchased a Condar flue probe (I have double wall pipe). Is it worth installing since I have the cat probe already?

Which would lead me to my third question - If 'yes' to the flue probe, what reading should I use to engage the cat? I'm thinking that once you engage the cat it slows down the draft, so can you snuff yourself out by operating the cat at the 500 mark on the cat probe, if the flue probe isn't reading that high yet?

Thank you!

 

[kennyp2339]

Merry Christmas All!

I ran out and bought a handful of BioBricks. The normal and XL size. I loaded the stove exclusively with them last night, a 2x3 XL base with a second layer of however many normal sized ones it took to cover the area, loaded them perpendicular to the first layer to limit air exposure. Pushed them to the back, and then pushed all of my coals up against the front of the stack with a few pieces of kindling. Stove seemed to love it, the stove top thermometer was reading around 450, however my cat was pushing over 1500, which started making me nervous. This was with the air control 1/4 open. I dialed it back to 1/8 and it slid down towards 1300 before I went to bed. My wife stayed up another hour or so and said it was around 1200 before she called it a night.

I did some reading around the forums and it seems like 1500 is the upper limit of acceptable for the cat? Also, it is my understanding a fresh cat is much more active and it should taper off after a few hundred hours. This AM the probe was reading around 600 which I believe means it was still ignited? Stove top was reading around 350. So I guess my first question is how can you tell if the cat is lit, or if the probe is just picking up exhaust temp?

My second question - I also purchased a Condar flue probe (I have double wall pipe). Is it worth installing since I have the cat probe already?

Which would lead me to my third question - If 'yes' to the flue probe, what reading should I use to engage the cat? I'm thinking that once you engage the cat it slows down the draft, so can you snuff yourself out by operating the cat at the 500 mark on the cat probe, if the flue probe isn't reading that high yet?

Thank you!

Howdy - I run a cat stove also and has some info, the 1500deg is the max safe mark for the cat, anything above it will start to degrade the cat and cause premature failure.
500 deg is the minimum of active cat. After a long burn when I'm ready to reload with a minimum active cat I like to add extra air and splits to get what a refer to as positive cat needle movement, that's when your at a lower temp but because of the new fuel and added air the cat probe starts to rise before cutting the air back, its also good practice to "char" the fresh load of splits, this assures that any residual moisture is burnt out, and the firebox is heated, "charing" refers to making sure all the pieces have flames before shutting it down to a smolder, also I like to close my stove down so I just have candle like flames, but that's my preference.
As far as the flue probe, its nice to know your flue temps but I wouldn't solely operate a cat stove on those, especially when looking to see when the cat is ready to be engaged, the flue temps are excellent though when burning hot and making sure your not over firing the stove.

 

[Brono]

So right now my cat is reading at 800, and the stove top at 275. Is that normal to have such a drastic difference? Firebox looks like this

Howdy - I run a cat stove also and has some info, the 1500deg is the max safe mark for the cat, anything above it will start to degrade the cat and cause premature failure.
500 deg is the minimum of active cat. After a long burn when I'm ready to reload with a minimum active cat I like to add extra air and splits to get what a refer to as positive cat needle movement, that's when your at a lower temp but because of the new fuel and added air the cat probe starts to rise before cutting the air back, its also good practice to "char" the fresh load of splits, this assures that any residual moisture is burnt out, and the firebox is heated, "charing" refers to making sure all the pieces have flames before shutting it down to a smolder, also I like to close my stove down so I just have candle like flames, but that's my preference.
As far as the flue probe, its nice to know your flue temps but I wouldn't solely operate a cat stove on those, especially when looking to see when the cat is ready to be engaged, the flue temps are excellent though when burning hot and making sure your not over firing the stove.

Thanks for the tips; getting everything engulfed in flames before shutting down is what I have been doing but was worried that may not be the right way to go about it. My question is should that be the practice with bricks? At what flue temps is over firing a concern?

Further, with a burning cat I would imagine I would see flue temps that would normally be creosote producing, but since the gasses went through the flue, it should not be a concern?

 

[wooduser]

One of life's little ironies appears to be that stove dealers can go on and on about how GREAT their stoves are, and never mention that the wood you burn in it is just as important as the stove!

Another little irony is that firewood dealers undoubtedly know how important low moisture wood is, but they shamelessly sell people stuff that works poor and keep getting away with this. They may not be lying, exactly, but they are telling people half truths at best, rather often.

I've only been hanging out at this board a few weeks, and I already have seen many proud new stove owners frustrated by not having wood dry enough to burn in their new stoves.

Very sad!

I suppose it's too much to expect a firewood dealer to tell that new stove owner that he'll be glad to sell him the firewood he needs, it just needs to be stored in a wood shed for two years while it dries out.