Insert or Hearth Stove

[cargolite]

I'm considering replacing an antique free standing pot belly/hearth stove.
I'm deciding between a free standing hearth stove, like a steel Quadrafire 5700 steptop (or a comparable Lodi) and a Quadrafire 5100i insert. My main concerns are air draft/draw and heating capacity of the insert. Can anyone please offer advice on the heat output of this type of insert as opposed to a free standing hearth stove? Will they be similar in terms of heat output?

 

[savageactor7]

From what I've read around here if it's heat you're looking for you want the free standing stove...if you can work it in.

 

[webbie]

They really are the same thing - a hearth stove or an insert - in fact, some models are sold with legs (freestanding) or with panel (as insert).

The keys to getting the most heat are:

1. If the masonry fireplace is 100% outside the house (bumped out), then an insert which goes 100% of the way back in is going to lose some heat to the mass.
2. The unit(s) must be installed properly with a tight fitting block off sheet metal at the damper area - this goes for both hearth stoves and inserts
3. If the insert is more than 1/2 way back in, a blower is required to make certain the most heat is exchanged into the room.

Most folks are very satisfied with the heat from their inserts - and the look of the unit fitting back in there makes up for the small losses. However, if you are the type that wants to squeeze every BTU out of your stove and wood, consider a rear vented unit which sites on the hearth in front.

 

[cargolite]

Thanks for the reply.
Maybe I mispoke but what I'm calling a hearth stove is a free standing stove that is connected to my fireplace flue.
The back of which would be a foot or so in front the face of the brick chimney.
Is this correct?
Can you please tell me what kind of inserts have rear venting? Is this vented outside the chimney?
Thanx

 

[webbie]

Right - a hearth stove is the name given to any stove which sits mostly out front of the fireplace.

There are MANY stoves that offer a rear vent and are designed for use like this. Jotul, Quadrafire (cast models) and Vermont castings all have multiple models designed for this - so do HearthStone, Woodstock Soapstone and many others.

examples:
https://www.hearth.com/gallery/pics/woodcoal/source/fireview.html
https://www.hearth.com/gallery/pics/woodcoal/source/heartstman.html
https://www.hearth.com/gallery/pics/woodcoal/source/homestd.html
https://www.hearth.com/gallery/pics/woodcoal/source/resiacc.html

 

[begreen]

cargolite, can you post a picture of the current setup? With the pot belly stove, is the flue entering the chimney above the fireplace opening or through the opening?

 

[cargolite]

Will post a pic asap of current setup.
But one other question.
As earlier stated in this thread, I heat my house with an old antique stove that draws well with little or no back draft issues and (with very few circumstances) no smoke in the house.
But. we were planning on updating this year to a new airtight insert or free standing.

However, my kids have been battling respiratory ailments such as lower bronchial infections and pneumonia this year and my wife is concerned that the stove may be the culprit. She is getting all sorts of advice from lots of anti wood burning people to get rid of the wood burning idea completely.
Is there any evidence or reference info that I can get to support my claim that a clean air tight unit doesn't compromise ones respiratory health indoors?
I certainly don't want to see my kids sick, but I can't stand being bullied by misinformation either.

 

[cargolite]

Here is a pic of my lil beauty.

 

[Todd]

That's a pretty unique stove you got there. I bet it burns through a good bit of wood. Some people can be sensitive from the wood smoke or dust and ash that flies around. A new EPA model hooked up to outside combustion air would probably eliminate some but not all. Stove fans and blowers seem to circulate alot of dust throughout a house too. Also find a stove that has a good ash pan option so you don't have to shovel ashes out and create more airborn ash.

 

[cargolite]

Oh it burns thru a good bit of wood alright, 2 wheelbarrow loads/day during peak season. And it's freakin hot.
Despite all the things I've done to improve it and make it house safe, it's time is well over.

 

[begreen]

OK, that is how I visualized the installation. It is a unique stove, man what a beastie. Is that a draft inducer on the stovepipe? Is the chimney throat blocked off below the stovepipe connection?

So what is the goal? Do you want to regain floorspace? If yes, an insert will really help. Or, do you want maximum heat? In that case, the freestander may be better.

 

[cargolite]

Correct, that is a draft inducer on the stove pipe and it works very well. The chimney throat is not blocked off below the stovepipe connection.

The insert idea is a compromise between the wifey & I. More space and streamlined appearance as opposed to a primary heat generator. I was looking at a Quadrafire 5000i, which I believe is the largest output std insert that I can buy.
Despite their (quadrafire) claims, I'm figuring that there will be less heat output than a larger sized free standing.
Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[cargolite]

Whoops, I misspoke. The chimney IS blocked off below the stovepipe connection.

 

[begreen]

How tall is the chimney? I suspect that the reason the draft inducer is needed is because the chimney throat is not blocked off. Is the damper closed? The lack of a block could mean that a lot of cool air is being pulled up the chimney when the stove is running. This can cause flue gases to cool to the point where creosote accumulation is a serious issue. If a new stove is installed, a block off plate should be installed in the chimney throat and no draft inducer added. If an insert is installed then the current stovepipe hole will need to be sealed shut.

How much heat do you really need? A 3 cu ft stove should do a good job and reduce wood consumption considerably. If power failures are not an issue, I'd probably opt for the insert. The big Quad is a good choice as would be the big Avalon, PE Summit, etc.

 

[cargolite]

The old unit burns very hot without any creosote build up on the chimney walls. This was an old coal stove that I retrofitted to burn wood. My chimney sweep tells me my chim is really clean every year. But the chimney is an original fireplace chimney flue that was never reduced in diameter for the stove, hence the inducer. The chimney is slow to get going, but once I have a hot fire, it will pull really well on it's own without the inducer.

If I get the insert, I'm assuming that I'll need a new 6" flue pipe thru the entire height of the chimney, roughly 16'. I also wasn't planning on using the inducer.
I'm just hoping that the new unit will pull air as well as my old beast. My house is about 2000 sf/2 story.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like an insert will make your wife a happy camper. You'll use less wood and feed it less. That should make you smile. Lots of nice choices. You will stay warm and use less fuel. Be sure to get one with a variable speed blower.

 

[begreen]

cargolite, is this an interior or an exterior chimney? If it is exterior, then there will be some more heat loss with an insert due to the masonry mass radiating heat outdoors and away from the insert. If interior, sounds like a good setup for an insert. What is the fireplace opening size?

 

[cargolite]

Exterior brick chim, opening is 32 wide x 28 high x 32 deep.
The hearth is also floor level or even with the floor in the room, which has a ceramic tile floor. I'm concerned that an insert may also be a hassle to load when it's that low on the floor.