Let me know what y'all think 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Firewood-kiln-d...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a55df67cb
http://cgi.ebay.com/Firewood-kiln-d...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a55df67cb
Is this worth it? (Kiln Dried)
- Thread starter hareball
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
LLigetfa
Minister of Fire
Someone else posted about the same deal last year. Either they didn't sell or more of it got wet.
LLigetfa
Minister of Fire
What a deal! Normal retail price is $1022 for a cord.fossil said:
They claim kiln dried yet it developed mold. A lot of firewood that is purported to be kiln dried is merely heat treated to a USDA standard to be exempt from quarantine.
Gunks
Member
The eBay listing may say .75 cu ft/bundle, but those are standard 40" x 48" pallets. They look to be stacked a bit over 48" high, and well packed by the looks of it. That means each pallet is darn close to 1/2 cord, which makes the price about $250/cord. Pretty cheap for dry wood if you ask me. My local "Gourmet" firewood stand asks $150/16" face for 2-year old wood... your truck.
smokinj
Minister of Fire
I have seen prices all over the board on here from not season to not a cord none seems happy with any wood dealer. If your going to be happy seems kiln dryed would be the better bet.
I dunno...my Fisher is so used to steaming wood then burning it. I might have to float wood like that through the fish tanks before putting it in the stove haha
Adios Pantalones
Minister of Fire
$340 would be a reasonable price here for a cord of dry wood. It would be an exceptional price for kiln dried. I'm not saying it's now dry (they seem to have an excuse for the mold... supposedly), and I'm not saying that I would pay it (I DIY my wood). Firewood is crazy expensive here.
We burned some kiln dry "Hot Stiks" from a processor in PA while we waited for wood delivery when we first got started several bags at $ 5 a bag.
Kiln dry wood is awesome - except the price. Not reasonable for daily use and heating IMO. I am satisfied with scrounging my free wood and giving it a year to season. I did an awesome job - my wood is perfect this year!
If you had access to a commercial kiln - wouldn't it be awesome to do your firewood in it? You could get way ahead of the game. I bet those guys that work in the PA factory - burn nothing but the best kiln dry wood all winter and get it free! That would be a nice employee benefit.
Kiln dry wood is awesome - except the price. Not reasonable for daily use and heating IMO. I am satisfied with scrounging my free wood and giving it a year to season. I did an awesome job - my wood is perfect this year!
If you had access to a commercial kiln - wouldn't it be awesome to do your firewood in it? You could get way ahead of the game. I bet those guys that work in the PA factory - burn nothing but the best kiln dry wood all winter and get it free! That would be a nice employee benefit.
Anybody know anybody who bought some of this? I agree with Batten - it looks to be about half a cord on the pallet. I'm at the point where I'm not going to be able to burn wood this season and $250 a cord is cheaper than oil. Heck, it's only $60 a cord more than I'm paying for the green stuff I've been getting. It's the shipping that's killer. I'm trying to work out a way to do this, but I don't want to waste time if the stuff is crap.
I live about 60 miles away so am thinking about asking my brother to take a ride. I inquired about shipping for the hell of it--
1 pallet $95
2 pallets $165
1 pallet $95
2 pallets $165
ckdeuce
Feeling the Heat
I talked to him via Ebay. Claims the wood is from overseas and that it was loaded into the shipping container still warm and spent the next two weeks at sea in the cold. This caused condensation and the mositure caused the mold. I aksed about shipping. Three skids of wood delivered to PA for $600.00. I passed.
A couple positive points IMHO:
- Looks like a lot of the splits are de-barked, so you are paying mostly for wood, not junk.
- The ends on the closeups look well cracked, so I think it's hardly in the green category
- They'll be real easy to stack back at home bundled like that
- If it's the same wood as last year's listing, it's kiln-dried and seasoned
A good buddy oversees a sheltered workshop for retarded and mentally disabled folks. They make pallets and kiln-dried firewood, paying the more highly functional folks to make the pallets and run the kilns, and the less functional ones to do the bagging of the firewood. I got curious about his operation with all the talk here, so I called him the other night. The gist of our conversation:
They have three insulated reefer trailers which they converted to kilns, usually all running full-time. My friend told me his agency pays $180/cord for green splits delivered in pallet-sized metal cages that they provide for the wood suppliers. The cages are loaded into the trailers, and gas heaters are used to bring the temps up. There is no attempt to keep the humidity up to prevent damage like is done in commercial lumber kilns. High powered fans are run over the wood for about 7-10 days, with periodic venting to purge the accumulated water vapor. When they hit the target MC (8%), the temp is raised to 160ºF to kill the buggies inside to meet with NY State standards. Samples are split, and when internal temps hit 160º, they take them out and truck them over to the packaging facility.
He swears they come out at about 8% (I remain skeptical), but when they are warehoused in the cold and then brought out into warmer and more humid conditions, they sometimes get moldy due to condensation that is formed on the wood surfaces. At that point, the wood is no longer suitable for retail. They used to use plastic bags for packaging, but now they use those nylon net bags. They produced something like 25,000 bags/year for the local box stores. The demand is so great that they could easily triple the business by adding more trailers, but then they'd start to run out of retarded and crazy people to package them - it's a not-for-profit agency. But there is enough of a problem with the mold that they stopped selling to retailers and all of their product now goes to the state campgrounds. They get $4.50/bag from the state, which in turn sells them at a small profit to campers in the summer. At $180/cord for wood and the cost of gas, trucking and oversight, there is little real money in it, but it keeps the folks feeling useful (piece work is not boring for most of them) and gives them a little pocket money to supplement their state funding. Even with the labor basically free, the whole operation barely covers the expenses.
As far as the volume printed on the bag, I can't say about the eBay wood, but my friend says that their bags have to meet package labeling standards, so is supposed to be the volume of the wood itself, not the portion of a stacked cord of wood. They figured this out by dry weights and some experimentation, and he says they are real generous with the count. They made little bins that the folks pack as tightly as they can, and then the contents of each one is bagged. A stacked cord of wood is estimated to only contain on the average about 80-90 cu.ft. of actual wood, the rest is the spaces between the splits. If what my friend says is true for the eBay wood, then you may be getting about 20-25% more stacked wood than the bags say you are getting.
Regardless of whether the wood is officially "kiln-dried" in moisture content, it is definitely dry enough to burn clean in a stove or a fireplace, probably comparable to wood seasoned under cover for about a year, maybe drier. I'm going to visit his operation in the near future and I'll grab a couple bags while I'm there, just to check out the product. I'm sure that when I sink a couple nails into them about an inch deep and check them out with a multimeter, I'll find that they are not as dry on the inside. What I think is going on is that the inside moisture diffuses to the outer faces after they are bagged and the conditions are ripe for a little mold. I just got about a cord of 3 year-old wood with the used stove I bought this year. It was covered on top, but with the extremely wet summer we had here, it had a lot more mold on it than those eBay bags have. Not much real rot, just surface stuff, and the wood in general is black and well cracked. It makes my hands smell a little if I handle a lot of it, but it burns long and hot.
So.... if the stuff is not poplar or some other lame "hardwood" (I think I see some cherry and yellow birch from bark remaining on some), I think it may be an outstanding value, and is worth at least checking out. If you're a first year burner, it's certainly a lot better than steam-distilling green oak in your $2000 EPA stove. I wish it was closer, because I'd buy four or five myself if it looked good.
- Looks like a lot of the splits are de-barked, so you are paying mostly for wood, not junk.
- The ends on the closeups look well cracked, so I think it's hardly in the green category
- They'll be real easy to stack back at home bundled like that
- If it's the same wood as last year's listing, it's kiln-dried and seasoned
A good buddy oversees a sheltered workshop for retarded and mentally disabled folks. They make pallets and kiln-dried firewood, paying the more highly functional folks to make the pallets and run the kilns, and the less functional ones to do the bagging of the firewood. I got curious about his operation with all the talk here, so I called him the other night. The gist of our conversation:
They have three insulated reefer trailers which they converted to kilns, usually all running full-time. My friend told me his agency pays $180/cord for green splits delivered in pallet-sized metal cages that they provide for the wood suppliers. The cages are loaded into the trailers, and gas heaters are used to bring the temps up. There is no attempt to keep the humidity up to prevent damage like is done in commercial lumber kilns. High powered fans are run over the wood for about 7-10 days, with periodic venting to purge the accumulated water vapor. When they hit the target MC (8%), the temp is raised to 160ºF to kill the buggies inside to meet with NY State standards. Samples are split, and when internal temps hit 160º, they take them out and truck them over to the packaging facility.
He swears they come out at about 8% (I remain skeptical), but when they are warehoused in the cold and then brought out into warmer and more humid conditions, they sometimes get moldy due to condensation that is formed on the wood surfaces. At that point, the wood is no longer suitable for retail. They used to use plastic bags for packaging, but now they use those nylon net bags. They produced something like 25,000 bags/year for the local box stores. The demand is so great that they could easily triple the business by adding more trailers, but then they'd start to run out of retarded and crazy people to package them - it's a not-for-profit agency. But there is enough of a problem with the mold that they stopped selling to retailers and all of their product now goes to the state campgrounds. They get $4.50/bag from the state, which in turn sells them at a small profit to campers in the summer. At $180/cord for wood and the cost of gas, trucking and oversight, there is little real money in it, but it keeps the folks feeling useful (piece work is not boring for most of them) and gives them a little pocket money to supplement their state funding. Even with the labor basically free, the whole operation barely covers the expenses.
As far as the volume printed on the bag, I can't say about the eBay wood, but my friend says that their bags have to meet package labeling standards, so is supposed to be the volume of the wood itself, not the portion of a stacked cord of wood. They figured this out by dry weights and some experimentation, and he says they are real generous with the count. They made little bins that the folks pack as tightly as they can, and then the contents of each one is bagged. A stacked cord of wood is estimated to only contain on the average about 80-90 cu.ft. of actual wood, the rest is the spaces between the splits. If what my friend says is true for the eBay wood, then you may be getting about 20-25% more stacked wood than the bags say you are getting.
Regardless of whether the wood is officially "kiln-dried" in moisture content, it is definitely dry enough to burn clean in a stove or a fireplace, probably comparable to wood seasoned under cover for about a year, maybe drier. I'm going to visit his operation in the near future and I'll grab a couple bags while I'm there, just to check out the product. I'm sure that when I sink a couple nails into them about an inch deep and check them out with a multimeter, I'll find that they are not as dry on the inside. What I think is going on is that the inside moisture diffuses to the outer faces after they are bagged and the conditions are ripe for a little mold. I just got about a cord of 3 year-old wood with the used stove I bought this year. It was covered on top, but with the extremely wet summer we had here, it had a lot more mold on it than those eBay bags have. Not much real rot, just surface stuff, and the wood in general is black and well cracked. It makes my hands smell a little if I handle a lot of it, but it burns long and hot.
So.... if the stuff is not poplar or some other lame "hardwood" (I think I see some cherry and yellow birch from bark remaining on some), I think it may be an outstanding value, and is worth at least checking out. If you're a first year burner, it's certainly a lot better than steam-distilling green oak in your $2000 EPA stove. I wish it was closer, because I'd buy four or five myself if it looked good.
ckdeuce
Feeling the Heat
[quote author="Battenkiller" date="1263432122"] but then they'd start to run out of retarded and crazy people to package them quote]
He could hire some Democrats in Washington to fill the void....... I have a feeling they are going to be out of work before long.
He could hire some Democrats in Washington to fill the void....... I have a feeling they are going to be out of work before long.
ckdeuce
Feeling the Heat
Okay, I ordered some. I had a couple of conversations with the guy, Len, and decided to go for it. He initially quoted me the same price as Hareball for shipping - 1 pallet, $95, 2 for $165, 3 for 210. The per pallet price was dropping but not by enough. We talked and I said I was interested but the shipping was a deal breaker. He said he could do better for quantity and offered me 4 pallets for $650, delivered. That's better. I asked about 8 pallets and he said $1000, delivered. That's down to the list price with delivery included. We settled on 12 pallets for $1300. The pallets are 40x48, stacked about 48" high. You can see in the photos that it's a tight pack. With all we read on this forum and my own experience I call that a half cord. So I'm paying $216.66 per cord, delivered for kd firewood. Considering the last lot of "dry seasoned" wood I got was 40% MC or worse and had fungus and rot, a little mold is nothing! Normal price for wood that is frankly green around here is $190-$250 per cord. I'm thinking this is a good deal. It's being delivered on Monday morning and I'll report back then.
BTW, I told him I had picked up some kd wood from the local grocery store to see what it was like and he said "which one?" The A&P. "On Welcher Ave? That's my wood - I supply them". First time I've gotten a fire going here without smoldering the wood in over a month!
BTW, I told him I had picked up some kd wood from the local grocery store to see what it was like and he said "which one?" The A&P. "On Welcher Ave? That's my wood - I supply them". First time I've gotten a fire going here without smoldering the wood in over a month!
Nice deal, Berone! I'll bet he really needs to move it and is willing to eat the freight costs. Half an apple is better than no apple at all.
Let us know how you like it.
Let us know how you like it.
Sounds like he owns the warehouse it's in. Wouldn't surprise me if a guy like that owns a trucking company, too. Very nice guy to deal with, BTW.
Got the wood today. Came on a 24' straight truck. I had 3 guys to unload and stack and it took some doing to get it off the truck, but not a big deal. The stuff looks great. The mold is pretty minimal and not on a whole lot of the wood. Biggest problem is that it has to be removed from all of those damn fibre bags, but that's a small price to pay for wood that's actually dry! I paid the going price for green wood to get 6 cords of kd.
One of the photos shows the mold. As my wife said, we get more mold than that on the regular wood!
One of the photos shows the mold. As my wife said, we get more mold than that on the regular wood!
Attachments
Berone said:
That ain't mold, it's a lit'l bit 'o mill-dew. Seriously, who could fault that stuff?
All stacked yet? How'd the cord count do? Even if it ain't 6 full cord, it's still a bargain.
All stacked, but not by me! I didn't have time to do a detailed calculation on the total. It's roughly 2 cords on the porch. In the yard It looks to be about 3 1/2 cords by normal measurement. While that would make it short of the 6 cord estimate (our estimate, not the dealer. He shipped exactly what was promised) I have never had such well split wood, with a minimal variance in size. It stacked far tighter than any other stack I have ever done, and the guys that were doing it were fitting the pieces as they went. So by literal measurements it's probably 5 1/2 cords. By real world standards, though, it's about 6.
- Status
Similar threads
