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Iseedeadbtus set me up

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by Chris S, Feb 28, 2008.

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  1. Chris S

    Chris S New Member

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    Ok you peaked my interest & I got 2 different answers
    At a local builders show today ( love them shows) a supplier who sells Viessmann told me the Vitolig was coming ...
    An e mail from a Viessmann rep said that they don't see a big enough demand to market them here
    We install modulating/condensing gas boilers for our customers, and I want to burn wood at home. A modulating gasifier would be a great fit for me, but I guess not this year!

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  2. EForest

    EForest Member

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    I got all warm and fuzzy also about the vitolig and stopped in at my local viessman rep.
    He told me to hold my breath for about two years.
    aparently Viessman won't inport until they get ASTM certification.

    if you can find one for sale in the USA please inform because many would like one here.
  3. Redox

    Redox Minister of Fire

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    Does anybody realize that these top out at 40KW? I think that is only 136,000BTU; kinda limiting in their application in this country, unless you buy two...
    Correct me if I am wrong.
  4. Chris S

    Chris S New Member

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    My 2800 sf house needs 56,000 btu on a 0 degree day, I'd find that boiler very useful especially if it mosulates!
  5. jebatty

    jebatty Minister of Fire

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    We heat 1500 sq ft with a free-standing wood stove rated at 55,000 btu's. The house is 50 years old. Most of Dec-Feb is 0-25, with a few nights/days a tad cooler, like in the -30/-10 range. No problems heating.
  6. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    Never undersetimate the Krauts at building quality, then being obnoxious about it to the point that they won't let 'just anyone' have it. Remind you of anyone?? :lol:


    And I'm only half German ;-)

    But back to the Vitolig itself . . . someone mentioned output ratings . . . was that for the 100 (if memory serves, this one is non-mod) the 200 (my choice) or the 300?

    Jimbo
  7. jebatty

    jebatty Minister of Fire

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    I had to check out the Vitolig website to learn more about this boiler. Impressive. It looks like it's the300.

    What about that comment on the Krauts? Us Krauts might sour on you. ;-)
  8. Eric Johnson

    Eric Johnson Mod Emeritus

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    I think 40KW is the sweet spot for wood-fired boilers in this country. Just ask nofossil--he's doing great with a 25kw boiler. I've got a 60, but could easily get by with a 40.

    I'm not convinced that modulation works very well with an inconsistent fuel like chunk firewood. I base that not on any technical knowledge on my part, but on a couple of recent threads on the topic here in the Boiler Room. Guess I'd have to see it to believe it.

    BTW, I did see a "biomass" boiler at the NYS Farm Show that claims to modulate, but it was strictly a corn/pellet burner. That's a more consistent fuel source by all accounts. I'll have to dig up the brochure and do a little more research.

    But, as Jimbo points out, who am I to critically analyze German technology? They do have a certain amount of credibility when it comes to technology. I'm only about 1/8 German (but half Danish, which might be close), but I do own a VW.
  9. Nofossil

    Nofossil Moderator Emeritus

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    Most homes that are heated with oil have a boiler in the 125,000 BTU range, and it's way oversized. My peak heating load is only 30,000 BTU/hr for 3500 square feet in Vermont.
  10. Redox

    Redox Minister of Fire

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    Being new around these parts, I may have misunderstood the average user on here. Doesn't everybody have a 100+ year old farmhouse with 14 bedrooms? :)
    I was getting the impression that everyone was also trying to heat their DHW, hot tub, garage, greenhouse, basement, dog kennel and tractor shed? This is where a central boiler (not the brand) would really shine. For those of us with a sensibly sized house that is reasonably well insulated, a good wood stove should do the job for a lot less money. I'm a "bang for the buck" sort of guy and for the record only have a 75KBTU furnace doing 4 bedrooms in the mid Atlantic. The Viessmann just seems like a Cayenne when all you need is a Chevy. Just thinking out loud here; don't be mad at me...
  11. jebatty

    jebatty Minister of Fire

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    Your bring up some points that merit discussion. I will speak for me and might make some assumptions about other users on this forum

    As mentioned in the post above, I heat 1500 sq ft with a free-standing, 18 year old wood stove. This is the primary heating, with electric backup when we may be gone for a few days. No plan to change this.

    I also have an old barn converted to a workshop that was heated by the old style OWB, a smoking, fire-belching dragon. That boiler gave out late last heating season, and I needed something new for heat. Only practical option was electricity, which is sky high, or putting in an LP unit heater, buying a tank ($1200-2400 depending on size), having it installed, etc., and then being a slave to the peak oil burnout and oil magnates.

    We own land with lots of trees, free wood, and another wood boiler was my choice. Not a wood stove, because I wanted the boiler with storage to be able to keep the barn above freezing for at least a week during the dead of winter if we should take off for awhile. After some research, I learned that the old style OWB (the only one I was familiar with) was not the only option, and I became sold on the wood gasification boilers. For a variety of reasons I bought the Tarm, got three old fuel oil tanks for water storage ($125 - 800 gallons), and installed it myself inside the workshop. Except for having to put in a chimney, the cost of the Tarm was competitive with replacement old-style OWB’s.

    Could not he happier, free heat, it will keep the barn above freezing for a week based just on storage, and $-wise the Tarm will pay for itself in a reasonable time. Also, I’m not burning or supporting fossil fuels. As you can see, I’m not heating DHW, no pool, no hot tub, just plain heating. And a reasonable choice in my situation. Plus, I’m a DIY experimenter by nature, and leaning about and installing the Tarm was a real accomplishment.

    As to others, many also are DIY experimenters. I think many, including myself, are not overly financially challenged, and the decision to give up fossil fuels is good. Many have their own wood supply or access to inexpensive wood. Many are rural or semi-rural, and live in a culture used to wood heat and wood boilers. Hydronic heat serves many purposes better than a wood stove, even though the up-front cost is higher, and many would have opted for a hydronic oil or gas fired system if they had not decided on a wood gasification unit. A gasification boiler with storage can provide heat for several days while a person takes a few days off. A gasification boiler actually can pay for itself, and an oil or LP fired boiler never will, the only thing being certain is that oil and LP will continue to rise in price. And last is that wood heat is sustainable with no fossil fuel CO2.

    My concerns are that gasification boilers might be a little challenging to the crowd used to “turn-it-on and forget it” heat and that the up-front cost may be higher than many can afford, even though in many areas the fuel cost saving will quickly make up the difference. But, I doubt Europeans are smarter than US, and they have used this technology in the home for a long time. So, a gasification boiler definitely is a reasonable to very responsible choice in many situations.
  12. Chris S

    Chris S New Member

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    Re: oversized boilers
    There is no excuse for this with gas as there are so many options...however with oil
    A three section oil boiler such as a Burnham V83 is rated at 79m btu net and thats a small boiler
    Many installers have shied away from 2 section boilers- reasons I am told include the rear of the chamber being too close to the flame & problems with this- I don't service oil so I can't say if that's true.
    We installed 2 V83s recently & downfired them both ( nozzle supplied by Burnham) to 79m btu- & they run great- still a little oversized- then the oil company comes in for the first cleaning & changes the nozzle back to the larger one ( by spec) & short cycle city
    Again with gas if it's oversized- shame on me
    Chris
  13. slowzuki

    slowzuki Feeling the Heat

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    I heat with a wood stove currently and it will stay but when I leave for 3 days, I need my pipes to stay in one piece so I need storage and a boiler.
  14. BrownianHeatingTech

    BrownianHeatingTech Minister of Fire

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    In MD, that 75kbtu furnace is probably oversized by a good bit...

    If you really want to install a small oil boiler, look for something like an Ultimate, since they use an iron "cone" to put the oil burner where it would be in a 3-section boiler, but with only two sections of boiler.

    There are a number of oil boilers in that size range, actually.

    The difficulty, of course, is that going too small means you lack domestic hot water recovery when the homeowners take a couple showers in a row.

    Joe
  15. Chris S

    Chris S New Member

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    Taco or Tekmar priority control, it goes on & on i know

    I'll look up that boiler thanks
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