Italian Stove in Virginia

[coachk]

My family and I are looking to purchase a pellet stove. I really like the Italian designed stoves. Are they available anywhere near tidewater to central VA? On the brand websites they seem to list lots of places that do not sell them (is this a sign?). I have searched and read many of the threads already and there seems to be equal amount of negativity on all USA and Italian brands.

thanks in advance

 

[DAKSY]

What negativity have you heard about Harman Pellet Stoves?

 

[coachk]

What negativity have you heard about Harman Pellet Stoves?
[/QUOTe

True, they seem to be a more favored brand

 

[SidecarFlip]

Seems to me that most of the negative comments stem from end users either not reading and following the manual or not cleaning them properly or regularly.

The only downside I see with a Harman is the asking price. Too expensive for my blood. While I can afford to drive a Veryon, I prefer a Ford because it's cheaper and lets me keep some of the money squirreled away for other stuff...

 

[coachk]

So...several dealers that I have spoke to have dropped the Ravelli-claiming they were very finicky and not their best sellers. Said that they are beautiful and run wonderfully when tuned right. So we are now looking at Harman-Absolute 43, lopi-deerfield, and regency gc 60. I like the Harman accentra and allure as well but wife likes the look of a traditional stove. Any thoughts?

 

[SidecarFlip]

Hate to break your bubble but, they are all finicky' None are plug and play. You might plug and play for a short time but once the stove gets some run time on it and gets dirty inside, things (firing parameters) change.

I constantly adjust my basic firing parameters daily to compensate for the fly ash accumulation in it, until it gets to the point of cleaning at which time I revert to the original firing parameters and start adjusting again, as needed. I don't alter the basic algorithms, but I do adjust the primary underfire combustion air as required.

All pellet / corn stoves are basic gasification units. That is the fuel bed (whatever fuel you use, in my case 12% or less RM corn) is primarily combusted in the fuel pot and a secondary burn (gasification) takes place above the fuel bed. That is where the realized heat is produced at and why the a/f ratio has to be adjusted regularly. Also why all burn pots or burn plates (in the case of a Harman) develop hard carbon deposits. the hard carbon is a direct result of partially combusted fuel in direct contact with the metal pot.... and.... I never scrape them, I always remove the burn pot (and stirrer) in my case and soak them in warm water for a half hour. That loosens the hard carbon deposits and allows you to remove them with a putty knife. I actually run 2 burn pots. One in the unit and one soaking or cleaned and ready to install.

 

[ABusWrench]

Seems to me that most of the negative comments stem from end users either not reading and following the manual or not cleaning them properly or regularly.

The only downside I see with a Harman is the asking price. Too expensive for my blood. While I can afford to drive a Veryon, I prefer a Ford because it's cheaper and lets me keep some of the money squirreled away for other stuff...

You know what Ford spells backwards, "Driver returned on foot!"

 

[SidecarFlip]

Never had that issue but then I maintain everything myself, just like the stove. I've always heard 'Ford", Found on road...dead.

 

[ABusWrench]

Never had that issue but then I maintain everything myself, just like the stove. I've always heard 'Ford", Found on road...dead.

Still have my '73 Mach1. Owned 45 years. "Q" code 351 Cleveland 4spd, power windows and ac. One of 3 produced. 36,000 miles and all original. It's arrest me red. Still turns heads and runs like new.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Like my 97 Ford F350 diesel ling bed, 4 door 4WD pickup I bought new in 97. Has 88K miles on it and sleeps all winter in a heated garage and has never seen snow or salt. OBS Ford's are in high demand today, especially with the forged rod 7.3 turbo diesels. It's a beast and it will be mine until I pass.

Paid 35 new. They are selling in pristine condition presently for 20 to 25 depending on condition and mileage. Not for sale. I get a lot of gawkers when I have it out and about.

 

[coachk]

So if they are all finicky then I guess I shouldn't be scared of the claims that some make of the italian stoves. I am coming from a woodstove so I don't mind giving a pellet stove some attention. I just don't want to get stuck with an expensive, good looking box that I can't fix or get fixed. By the way those are some nice rides you have !

 

[Washed-Up]

Imho Harman is the easiest to clean and replace parts on as well as diagnose...but I’m biased

 

[coachk]

do all Harman dealers charge msrp?

 

[SidecarFlip]

Imho Harman is the easiest to clean and replace parts on as well as diagnose...but I’m biased

I have to disagree. They are complex and hard to access ALL the areas to clean and replacement parts are expensive. I realize you are biased. No problem with me. I like simple and cheap to repair myself.

If Harman was the 'holy grail of biomass stoves, they would be the only game in town. They aren't.

 

[SidecarFlip]

So if they are all finicky then I guess I shouldn't be scared of the claims that some make of the italian stoves. I am coming from a woodstove so I don't mind giving a pellet stove some attention. I just don't want to get stuck with an expensive, good looking box that I can't fix or get fixed. By the way those are some nice rides you have !

In reality that all do the same thing and they all need to be maintained with regularity. Some are harder to clean (Harman) than others. It's all about regular and preventive maintenance and they will all fail without proper care which is why there are so many comments on this forum and most comments can be sourced back to improper maintenance and cleaning.... and failure to follow the manufacturers manual. People today don't bother to read them and then they have issues.

 

[SidecarFlip]

do all Harman dealers charge msrp?

No. I'd wait to buy one until the weather warms. That is when dealers will cut prices. Retail dealers don't want then sitting all spring, summer and fall, unsold. They have to pay floorplan tax on unsold units which provides impetus to cut pricing.

 

[Washed-Up]

Fair enough sidecarflip, and I guess I’m speaking specifically of the P series, the Advance-2 I rebuilt last summer was surprisingly more complex than I thought.

 

[SidecarFlip]

My 4 prime considerations on purchasing ANY biomass stove are these...

1. Ash capacity while in operation. They all make fly and solid ash when running so I want a large ash capacity so I don't have to constantly remove ash (which is even more acute when burning corn as corn makes 10 times the solid ash than pellets do.

2. Ease of cleaning. I don't like hard to access exhaust paths that require specialized tools like flex shafts and long bottle brushes to remove the ever present fly ash accumulation. I want to spend as short of time as possible doing cleanings... That includes the venting as well. Why I like my leaf blower. a quick suck removes all the ash (and makes the deck black...lol)

3. Availability of reasonably priced parts. You and I both know that mechanical parts will fail at some point and require replacement and I feel that you (and I) don't need to have a wallet drainer for replacement parts. Those mechanical parts will fail even sooner if not maintained properly. The mechanical parts of any unit live in a hot, dirty atmosphere, consequently they fail much quicker if not maintained properly.

4. Solid state controls. I prefer solid state controls over analog and with solid state, the stove can 'think for itself for the most part. I don't like babysitting a unit, neither do you. Don't believe anyone does. Myself, I don't desire cal rod ignition but then that is a personal preference and not a detraction by any means. However, it's another component that will require replacement at some point.

While this sounds negatively biased, I would never own an England Stove anything because of their limited ash capacity and their really poor design of the burn pot area. I had one way back when and I'd never consider another one. If a unit don't have an ash pan, I don't want it.

You always get what you pay for, like anything in life but after 20+ years, I've been able to refine my needs as it relates to how much time I spend in cleaning and maintenance.

Harman's have a terrific capacity for solid ash containment. but then so does my USSC American Harvest.

They all have the good points and not so good points and it don't matter who made it, if you don't take care of it as in cleaning properly, they all fail. In my case I require a true multi-fuel unit but most people will only burn processed biomass wood pellets so I'm in the minority in that respect.

 

[Washed-Up]

Well said, and it depends how “handy” you are...and if you like tinkering

 

[rich2500]

I had a Ravelli and now the Allure and the Harman is much easier to clean then the Ravelli was.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Well said, and it depends how “handy” you are...and if you like tinkering

The inherent issue with any biomass stove is... At some point (unless you are very flush and can pay someone to maintain it is), you'll be 'tinkering' somewhere along the line. That is a given.

The whole point in having a biomass unit versus a central furnace is, it's more cost effective if you heat with anything other than NG.

Having said that, my Plus 90 condensing furnace is always online anyway. I don't consider a biomass stove to be a primary source of uninterrupted heat.

What I actually do is run both. When it's real cold out and windy, the Plus 90 picks up the deficit heat load. I'm on propane btw. Just filled my back bottle, $1.33 a gallon.

 

[coachk]

y'all are definitely giving me lots to think about. It looks like I have local support for Harman, Lopi, and Regency but none of the italian stoves.
Given that all 3 offer an acceptable amount of BTU's and ash and hopper size these are the things that are "currently" (I say currently because this seems to change as I gather information) important to us in no particular order:


1)reliability(outside of normal maintenance and cleaning or having to replace a worn out part)

2)footprint(the small the better as we do not have a big hearth or anything to put it on)

3)looks- must have "legs" or "feet" . In the 3 brands that leads us to absolute 43, deerfield, and greenfield.

4) quiet operation-it will be in a tv watching room and while it doesn't need to be silent especially when we aren't watching tv at night being quiet or having a silent or whisper mode would be nice.

A few other things, all of the harman's have to be ordered and could be 6 weeks out. If we were to go this route that would put us in the middle March. We can wait if necessary till summer if this will be bring the Harman's or other stove's hefty prices down..

thanks for all of the info

 

[Washed-Up]

I can barely hear our P61A at night or watching tv(10ft away) but can hear pellets dropping g into the auger, fan noise is minimal

 

[SidecarFlip]

They all make 'white noise', don't care what brand they are. Some more than others. It all depends on how well the drive motors and fan assemblies are noise insulated. Some are better, some are worse but NONE of them are silent unless you get a totally non powered unit like the Wiseway gravity fed unit. but then heat dissipation is 100% radiant.

If I were you, I'd wait and buy one this summer when you can negotiate a better price. Season is already half over.

 

[rich2500]

When I bought my Harman my dealer told me that spring is when Harman sets their price on stoves for the year, highly unlikely prices will go down so unless you could get a display stove your probably not gonna get the Harman any cheaper. My dealer did take 10% off my stove because I was self installing.