Jotul F118 Black Bear

[Eric Gradoia]

I'm thinking of picking up a second stove and have been batting around a few different models. Would any Black Bear owners mind chiming in with their comments on this stove. It will be for a back room. I don't plan on burning it 24/7. Mostly for weekends and evenings. What should I expect to pay for this guy? I'm outside of Bennington, VT. If anyone has a favorite dealer in the area please let me know. Thanks

 

[JonOfSunderland]

I don't have a Jotul, nor did I buy my stove new, but Friends of the Sun in Brattleboro has been very pleasant to deal with for purchasing parts. They carry Jotul, and I know they have a 118 in the showroom. I pass by the dealer 10 minutes from my house and drive 1/2 hr to them for Hearthstone parts.

 

[DAKSY]

$1684 about 30 miles west of Bennington in Troy.
You can save another 10% if you bring a coupon from the Times Union.
Got em in stock.

 

[argus66]

i have a f3 cb but i may put room on back of house with no heat except for the black bear, i really like long box stoves and it has a good size window and a small screen door. great stove.

 

[Battenkiller]

I used a Taiwanese clone of the original Jotul 118 for 18 seasons (and it was well used before I got it) until it finally gave out last year. It is a great little box stove that cranks out heat that defies its smallish appearance. It can burn very intensely with the draft cut down to about 1/4 and really roars with the air wide open. Mine had a 5" flue collar on it, and it really likes that size pipe. Unfortunately, I had to run it directly into a 7 x 7" square tile-lined chimney. I had to install a manual key damper in the flue to get it to keep the heat in the stove where it belonged.

Not familiar with the upgrade, but I sure would have appreciated the glass door and greater efficiency it is touted to have. I almost bought one this fall, but I found another nice stove used at an unbelievable price. I like my new stove, but I really miss the drop dead simplicity of the old one. Burns from front to back like a cigar. Pull the coals forward, slide in your long splits and close the door. Come back in four hours and do it again.

Biggest drawback is the door opening. Real easy to get a piece wedged in there - half in and half out - and next thing you know you're running for the door to toss a flaming, smoking split into the snow. But you learn the right sizes pretty quick after a few times with that.

 

[Eric Gradoia]

Thanks for the input; this board never fails. DAKSY, is that you I've seen off of 787? If not let me know where to find you; I'll have to stop by next time I'm in the Troy area. Much appreciated.

CR

 

[DAKSY]

Thanks for the input; this board never fails. DAKSY, is that you I've seen off of 787? If not let me know where to find you; I'll have to stop by next time I'm in the Troy area. Much appreciated.

CR

Nope. That's the Woodburning Warehouse. If you go there once, you will NEVER go back.
We don't call the owner "NASTY NANCY" for nothing.
She's a crusty ole girl who don't give two hoots bout nuthin but the almighty dollar.
She will smoke cigarettes & blow smoke in your face...
We're on Rt 7 as you come into Troy. On the left between Walmart & the
Price Chopper & in the same building with Pollock's True Value.

 

[Eric Gradoia]

YIKES! I think I dated her sister once...
Yup, I know right where you guys are. I'll have to stop in.

Cheers.

 

[jcims]

I'm thinking of picking up a second stove and have been batting around a few different models. Would any Black Bear owners mind chiming in with their comments on this stove. It will be for a back room. I don't plan on burning it 24/7. Mostly for weekends and evenings. What should I expect to pay for this guy? I'm outside of Bennington, VT. If anyone has a favorite dealer in the area please let me know. Thanks

I grew up in a home with one of these on the first and second floor of a 1800 sq foot ranch (older versions with the spinner on the front). For the size, they put out a surprising amount of heat, are easy to start and seem to be fairly miserly with the wood. If the back room is anything less than 400 sq ft, you had better have some windows or doors to open or you might cook yourself.

 

[Fsappo]

I can offer 3 comments:
1. I have sold a number of Jotul F118s in the past and always had happy customers
2. If I was gonna buy a stove I would be thrilled to buy from someone like Daksy. He always offers great advice and I have yet to catch him steering someone wrong
3. If I was gonna buy a stove, I would also be thrilled to buy from Friends of the Sun. Very good people, I have met the owner personally. They run a great operation

 

[precaud]

It's nothing like the old 118. There's been lots of feedback here on that stove since it was introduced, do a search for F118. IMO, it's a big turkey. Unless you just gotta have a stove with that geometry, there are much better choices out there.

 

[jeffee]

It's nothing like the old 118. There's been lots of feedback here on that stove since it was introduced, do a search for F118. IMO, it's a big turkey. Unless you just gotta have a stove with that geometry, there are much better choices out there.

I would disagree with the above assessment. I am on my third year with mine, and I love it. Please let me know if you have any questions about it.

-Jeff

 

[Fsappo]

It's nothing like the old 118. There's been lots of feedback here on that stove since it was introduced, do a search for F118. IMO, it's a big turkey. Unless you just gotta have a stove with that geometry, there are much better choices out there.

Better choices based on what?

 

[precaud]

I was very excited about the F118 when it first came out. It was short-lived enthusiasm. It is an old-school stove with an overly complicated air system grafted on to get it to burn clean. It was born in the marketing department, not the engineering lab, drawing on the positive emotional associations folks have with the old 118, which was one of the better stoves in it's day.

Heavy stove with a small firebox.
Cast-iron firebox lining.
Non-optimum firebox geometry.

On the plus side, it has a large heat exchange surface area.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

It's nothing like the old 118. There's been lots of feedback here on that stove since it was introduced, do a search for F118. IMO, it's a big turkey. Unless you just gotta have a stove with that geometry, there are much better choices out there.

Better choices based on what?

Competition for the dollar makes our world go around. Every player has a different product and the buyer buys the one they find most suitable. I don't think one is better than another as the EPA cert guarantees a certain level of clean burn.

Matt

 

[precaud]

Sure, if you erase all criteria except clean burn and user preference, then no stove is better than any another. But I think there's lots more to talk about than that, and the Count was asking for input from users.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Really other than clean burn and user preference what else is there?

It's increasingly harder, and impossible in some places to buy and install a stove without a clean burn.

After that it's all user preference as to looks, heat output, firebox size, price, stone, CI, steel plate, etc.

When it comes down to it, stoves are pretty close to what they were when Franklin designed his, a box that holds fire.

Matt

 

[jeffee]

[....] It is an old-school stove with an overly complicated air system grafted on to get it to burn clean. [....]

It has a baffle and tubes. User can control somewhat how much combustion air can come into the front and rear of the stove. What makes it overly complicated?

 

[precaud]

The Count started this thread asking for user input and I gave mine, that's all. I have no interest in disparaging F118 owners and I'm glad you enjoy yours, jeffee. I simply encourage anyone who is thinking of buying one to think it through, that's all.

 

[larryhollenb]

Couldn't remember my password so its taken a bit to join in this discussion.

I purchased the EPA Black Bear when it first came out. My home is easily within the rated output of the stove. It lasted me about three months to part with it. If I would have owned it in the days were having now with lows near zero and highs near 20 I would be freezing. I can remember thinking, how can this stove be rated so well and doing so poorly. I had well dried wood, split to fit the "tiny" door. It would hold coals, and start up was fairly simple, but something about all the insulation that the EPA requires stops much of what most likely its predecessor put out as heat and vents it up the chimney. I could get up at 7 am and still only have the room it was in up to 68 after hours. The rooms around it were very cold. Frankly its been four or five years since I owned it and I forget all the problems, but I know that I would not recommend it to anyone from my personal experience. The biggest shock was when I took it out and found that the pipe was already coated with a pretty heavy creosote crust, and that was with it running as suggested. From there I went to a Morso 3610 which was a pretty good stove in comparison. But still the fire boxes and heat output of these new stoves are a joke. I belonged to another stove site that pushes EPA stoves and hates anything predating them. However as a person who had previously heated with wood for quite a few years, I could recall the kind of heat output that was pretty much normal with many older stoves. Everyone kept trying to tell me that these new "toys" were doing a fine job, even though the fireboxes hardly held any wood of any size and were insulated to death. You know there is a trade off when you can locate the stoves 12 inches from the wall and less. Those are sides that are not benefiting the heat to the home for sure.

I went back to heating with oil for a couple years parting with the Morso as well. What a waste of a lot of money! Then I ran into a very fine condition I would guess late 40's early 50's porcelain circulator. Once I got familiar with its operation I couldn't be happier. Warm and toasty at zero, heat fast though out the house, no babying the stove for a half hour every fill up which is way too often on a new type stove. Best of all when I took the chimney down last year I was amazed to find almost nothing on the walls of the pipe. It is a manually operated stove, not one of the offending automatic types such as ashley that filled the flues with creosote in no time.

 

[k3c4forlife]

I have a Waterford 104. Extremely similar stove, heats my den really well. The thing is pretty impressive, just not enough to be the only source of heat for my whole house. Would be great as a second stove for exactly what you're looking for. The nights and weekends stove and has a pretty good burn time for its size.

I am looking (and hopefully buying) a Regency I2400 Insert this weekend to put in a more centralized location of my house. If you are interested in the Waterford let me know, the stove was burned a total of 10 times (if that) before I moved in a month ago.

http://pasurvivalprods.tripod.com/waterford.html