Jotul F3 CB vs Castine (F400) - heating output advice....

[pamK]

I'm uploading pix/house layout below for best advice between F3CB vs Castine F400 (hopefully they uploaded correctly)

House: its called a "carriage" house or duplex (two houses squished together). ~2465 sq ft, 2 story, 1989 construction, good-fair insulation. We do not have a open floor plan, and can only place stove in Fam Rm against wall. Good thing is Fam rm faces north (no sun from Oct-Mar), cold side of house, alongside of garage, one sliding glass door recently installed Anderson well insulated, normal 8' ceiling. Two registers and two return registers are opposite side of room to help circulate, and will be installing ceiling fan. Existing system is HP (forced air). The wall running from fam rm to living rm is an insulated wall adjoining our neighbor, so opposing rms are the the exposed areas.
Live in Chester Cty/ SE PA,. When temps go below 15 degrees our 2 yr old Trane HP struggles (this has been the first winter in seeing this) and single digits, well I run a Delonghi radiator over the registers in my daughters room to keep those at 65.

Existing in Fam rm is a '89 prefab Martin Industries FP, which hubby will pull out, demolish drywall bumpout and build up hearth (still processing on this) and drywall (or Durock) the back wall. Chimney stove pipe/liner will be purchased for 35' of existing chimney which has a good height to our roof line. We use a Kerosene heater that cranks out 9300 btu for times when we want heat in that room, but after 4-5 hrs is so hot in there we need to turn off. Hubby wants heat for fam rm - kitchen area, I would like heat more of the 1st level.

1st stove shop near to us, rec. F3 CB, only thing I had alarm bells go off, is when he was showing how it starts, he mentions "in some cases" we might have to leave the ash pan open "to get air in there for a real hot burn for a start up", which I read all over this forum is a big "no-no". He was mentioning we probably would not get the Castine up to temps that would burn off creosote, since we'd probably keep it on low burns or make smaller fires since it would crank out so much heat.
This is starting out as a "weekday eve/ weekend burns" heating system (mainly when temps go below 30). Though some of those bitter cold temps we got this past month I wonder if we would be evolving to longer burns.
Sorry for typing a book load of info, I keep reading "discussions" between F3/F400 models and hope if I post a house layout someone will feedback a good explanation over one/other model. Thanks!

 

[begreen]

The issue appears to be to get rid of the compartmentalization of the current floorplan. Is there any chance of putting an opening between the family room and the dining room? If this opening could be in line with the opening to the living room, then I would go for the Castine or perhaps an Oslo. It will provide longer burn times and have more reserve for the depth of winter. In that case, you may need a fan in the living room, pointed toward the family room to assist circulation, but that is not a big deal.

 

[pamK]

That wall carries all the sewer/plumbing between 2nd floor and basement (2 bathrooms are above that wall between fam/din rm), so no that cannot be removed.

 

[rijim]

A month ago I had the same question and, with the help of people here, picked the F400 and do not regret it. My living room is 19x13 with an opening to other rooms at each end of the 19' wall. My house is a single level ranch about 1000sq ft.; when the stove is running at 500deg stove top temp my living room is 78 the rest of the house is about 75 (fan blowing toward the living room). Since you have a second floor the heat will naturally want to rise so as BeGreen mentioned a fan blowing towards the family room will help circulate the heat out. The longer log length in the F400 is a plus (18" vs 20"). The biggest thing is dry wood, if the wood is properly seasoned, adding less wood is possible and still allow proper temps for clean burn. No matter which stove you decide on, by "seasoned" wood now for next year, get it stacked and covered then get wood for 2010 and do the same, you won't be sorry. With dry wood and proper draft you can start a fire or reload and never open the ash door which is much safer. BeGreen and others here were a big help in me selecting the larger stove then answering my startup questions so I believe you'll get some excellent opinions and advice.

Good luck,

 

[DAKSY]

My first quetion would be, "Why have the hubby tear everything out?"
If you're going to live there for the rest of your lives, maybe I'd think
about that, but, BY FAR, the cheaper alternative is to install your new stove
using the existing set-up, & running an insulated liner thru the fireplace venting.
The other plus is that if you move & like the stove, you can take it with you.
& the existing set-up can be reutilized by the new homeowners.
The down side to this set-up, & others will pooh-pooh this, & it is not true in ALL
cases, is that the Castine does have some drafting issues,
ESPECIALLY if you use the flue collar horizontally
- which is what you'd hafta do installing it into a ZC box.
The size of the door on the Castine is too big, & allows SOME smoke to escape
before going around the baffle & up the flue.
Dead vertical venting installs are generally a non-issue with this unit...
YMMV...

 

[myzamboni]

With either stove, a 35' liner chimney run is going to cause A LOT of draft. You might have to consider a smaller than 6" liner. Since you cannot remove the wall between the LR/DR, a bigger stove might cook you out of the LR. Just something to consider.

 

[begreen]

That wall carries all the sewer/plumbing between 2nd floor and basement (2 bathrooms are above that wall between fam/din rm), so no that cannot be removed.

I wasn't suggesting the wall removal. It is likely a supporting wall as well. However, is there an option to open the wall up a bit? I was thinking of a large opening similar to that on the LR/DR wall. If there are no drains in that section, then it may be possible to open up Supplies may be relatively easy to reroute around the opening. Just a thought. It would definitely improve air circulation.

 

[pamK]

replying to DASKY: the ZC FP already has issues in that the back wall is cracked, rec'd quote of $325 to replace. I don't think we could sleep well at night since this is an adjoining wall to our neighbors and we don't know what else is hidden that isn't "up to par" of fire safety.. This whole issue began with looking into inserts (learned not to do) than going with a BIS Ultima, which could be done, but realizing the heat out put on a wood stove with that pipe plus the wonderful uploaded photographs of what owners have done flashed better ideas into our minds of removing the entire metal box and go stove
MYzombi - this is where we are in the "research zone" of drafting - the last time a chimney sweeper cleaned our chimney they quoted it was 35'. Some neighbors who actually use this zc fp have smoke pouring in until a good fire gets going, one neighbor installed a black whirly bird style cap on their chimney, we wonder why that was installed, unless he had drafting issues with the height...

 

[DAKSY]

the ZC FP already has issues in that the back wall is cracked, rec'd quote of $325 to replace.

$325??!??!? The refractory material for the back should cost you less than $150.
Matter-of-fact, we sell replacement material for $85 for a 24 x 39" blank, & we cut em for $20...

I don't think we could sleep well at night since this is an adjoining wall to our neighbors and we don't know what else is hidden that isn't "up to par" of fire safety..

If that building meets code for multiple residences, there's a firewall between you & your neighbor, if that's any consolation...

 

[dvellone]

I jumped from the f100 to the castine because the 3cb looked to have a marginally larger firebox and the burn times with the f100 were pretty short. To give you an idea of what I'm heating... my 1st floorplan is 16x22, 2nd floor is the same. There's a 10x12 bath/laundry extending off the first floor. The castine heats the space easily and although I can also over heat, it's an easier issue to remedy than trying to get enough burn time out of the f100. Even with smaller fires I'm getting a longer burn than the f100. I'll occasionally choke the fire down a bit and burning nice seasoned wood I swept once this season and could have waited a good while longer. I know the f100 isn't the 3cb but the firebox size is very similar. The castine, in comparison, is a joy to load.