Installing a laddomat loading unit and it comes with 2 sets of gaskets for the connections, a rubber set and a fiber set. What are the advantages of one over the other? Are there specific applications that would make one a better choice such as higher temps or type of fluid?
laddomat install question
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nrford
Minister of Fire
Use the rubber, keep fiber for emergency spare. Remember the threads on that Laddomat are straight. Use Blue majic teflon tape and pipe dope. Tighten but not really really tight, or tapered threads may strip straight!
Depending on what boiler you have you might want to try the next higher opening temp thermostat. This made a big difference in my Atmos, Randybucksnort said:
Singed Eyebrows said:
Randy, how is it different in your experience?
Mine seems to like a nice hot return temperature as well. I think I get steadier burning with better gasification, a better coal bed, and less chance of bridging when I run with 160 degF return temperature as opposed to 145 degF or so.
--ewd
EW, I went from a 72C to a 78C & the Atmos seems to burn hotter & cleaner & I can get my storage at a higher temp also. Atmos wants their boilers run from 80C to 90C & I couldn't do this with the lower opening thermostat. Only problem is with the hotter running, my boiler will hit 89C & my draft fan shuts off lowering output. I can't decide if another pump in series(aquastat controlled) or a fancy variable speed circulator is the way to go. Randyewdudley said:
Singed Eyebrows said:
Nofossil has the details on his website of how to wire a three speed Grundfos for external switching, so you could switch into high flow mode with an aquastat. I think I remember that Laddomats use Grundfos pumps so you might be able to find a bigger three speed pump that would fit the volute.
Or an extra pump, ideally in parallel, but in series could work if the load curve and the pump curves work out to give the extra flow you need.
--ewd
EW, I run the Lado on the high speed now, constantly & also this is a 50hz pump run on 60hz, so I should have plenty of pump, I don't though. I thought about using a Smart Fan that would change the HZ, there is a risk of burning out the motor though. Laddomat motors are not available I've read. Idealy I should have bought a Laddomat 21-60, didn't think that I needed a 60KW pump on a 32KW boiler though. I'll probably try the extra pump in series because I need more pressure through the restricted Laddomat. Good idea about the bigger pump, maybe a little wider impeller is available also, Randyewdudley said:
I believe the Laddomat is intended to be operated with the storage tank located very close to the boiler with minimum in-between plumbing and pipes of sufficient diameter to carry the load. Very important is the pump head between the boiler and the storage tank and the pump curve for the Laddomat circulator. If the distance is too great and/or the plumbing diameter too small, pump head will exceed the capacity of the Laddomat circulator to move the quantity of water needed to handle the boiler output.
Singed Eyebrows said:
Sounds like the best first thing to try, I was assuming you were volume limited over on the right side of the pump curve, if you're more over on the left side then adding a pump in series would pay off better.
--ewd
Jim, In this case my storage tank is less than 2 feet away from the boiler & connected with 1 1/2" iron pipe. The 21G Lado just isn't enough pump for my boiler. Zenon from New Horizons said he had no end of grief from low output with the 21G especially when the boilers exceeded 32KW. I believe some had to take out the check valve. The 21G was at one point rated at up to 75KW, then it was downrated to 45KW, & I can overrun it with 32KW as mentioned. Randy BTW, I always wondered if the European Lado with the Wilo Star pump had more omph.jebatty said:
What circulator is on the Laddo 21G? What is the circulator rated at? The specs on the Laddo's are confusing, in part because the boiler rating also depends on the thermostat setting, the lower the setting the higher the capacity of the Laddo. It takes some real thought and knowledge to select the right components, and it seems that often the mfr selects a lower cost component to keep the price down rather than equipping the boiler with components that realistically can handle the output.
The Termovar LK810 loading unit uses a Grundfos 15-58 (three-speed). The unit returns 140* to the boiler and is rated for a maximum of 70kW. We recommend it for most installations with the exception of a 60kW boiler going to un-pressurized thermal storage (lots of head loss in those coils) and/or applications where the boiler is remote from the storage and/or distribution. In those cases a Termovar mixing valve and a Grundfoss 26-99 normally do the trick.
I would think that a parallel circulator on an aquastat would work well to boost the effective laddomat output when it is most needed. I'm guessing that at low return water temperature from system/storage, 140-160F (60-72C) or below the laddomat likely does OK due to high delta-T. But as system/storage temperature rises above some level, say 170F, a delta-T of 20F or less at the laddomat gpm does not move enough water to carry the boiler btu output.
If a circulator was installed to bypass the laddomat by placement between the system return line to the laddomat and the boiler return and was set to "on" only when return water was above 160F, for example, then gpm flow through the boiler would increase to carry the boiler btu output. The aquastat would need to be wired to a re-set aquastat/temperature controller or in series with a control on the boiler that would turn it "off" when the boiler had burned out its load.
I used a similar setup but a series circulator some time ago when I had undersized plumbing on my Tarm. Increase in gpm from a series setup would be less than from a parallel setup.
A low cost circulator, like the Taco 007, probably would be sufficient in most cases. Plumbing is easy. Control from the boiler control could be easy, depending on the boiler, or from a manual re-set temperature controller, which runs about $50.00, maybe less.
If a circulator was installed to bypass the laddomat by placement between the system return line to the laddomat and the boiler return and was set to "on" only when return water was above 160F, for example, then gpm flow through the boiler would increase to carry the boiler btu output. The aquastat would need to be wired to a re-set aquastat/temperature controller or in series with a control on the boiler that would turn it "off" when the boiler had burned out its load.
I used a similar setup but a series circulator some time ago when I had undersized plumbing on my Tarm. Increase in gpm from a series setup would be less than from a parallel setup.
A low cost circulator, like the Taco 007, probably would be sufficient in most cases. Plumbing is easy. Control from the boiler control could be easy, depending on the boiler, or from a manual re-set temperature controller, which runs about $50.00, maybe less.
I can vouch for the 007 as being able to add another 15 gpm or more when plumbed in parallel, a couple hearth contributors have reported similar success. And with the short distances and fairly limited number of hours that it will run, a 0.75" circuit wouldn't be much of a stretch plumbing-capacity-wise.jebatty said:
What is a 'manual re-set temperature controller', and could you provide a link? I can't seem to find anything that would define it as a term-of-art.
--ewd
With my situation I just need a little more flow at times & will probably try the series route. I was going to use a Grundfoss, will check out the Taco too. Any suggestions for a cheap aquastst? Would one with an imersion probe be more accurate? I will want an accurate 2 degreeF differential, Randy
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